Role Calling

What Would You Do To Save A Life?

2010-06-12T11:31:00.006-04:00

"She heard the baby cry."

"She what?" my wife exclaimed.

"She heard the baby cry." Martha sighed as she explained what happened during an abortion that took place recently in Miami.

Martha recounted the counseling provided to this broken woman who now regrets her abortion and has sought help to silence the echoes of that call for help.

My wife and I just came back from our 10 year anniversary trip to the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area. While there, we were able to have dinner with Martha Avila the lady who heads up the Heartbeat of Miami crisis pregnancy clinic. (They are associated with John Ensor and Heartbeat International).

I was moved yet again as I talked to Martha about what is going on in the abortion movement in Miami and all that their clinic is doing.

Here are some stats on Miami and the Heartbeat clinic:

1. Miami has the highest abortion rate in all of the United States. (We saw newspaper ads with coupons to get discounted abortions).

2. Miami allows abortions up to 24 weeks into pregnancy. We saw many ads promoting these kind of practices.

3. Hundreds of women come to the two Heartbeat clinics every year (Martha said 12 ladies per clinic was a slow day)

4. 95% of the ladies who have come to have abortions have decided to keep their babies. This means that Heartbeat of Miami has been used to save 100s of babies every year.

5. The gospel is shared with many of the ladies (and their partners) and many have come to know Jesus Christ as their Savior. Heartbeat then seeks to get these new believers plugged into a local church.

Heartbeat wants to open up a third clinic, but currently they do not have the money. I think that if Life-loving people knew about this, they could get this money. Would you be willing to give? Even just $10...or sponsor Heartbeat of Miami for $30 per month. My wife and I have been supporting Heartbeat of Miami since they opened 3 years ago. I can't emphasize what a blessing this has been.

I encourage you to support your local crisis pregnancy centers, but also consider fighting this fire where the fire burns strongest...in Miami, Florida. You can click on "Donate Now" on the Heartbeat of Miami website to give.

Helping Your Marriage

2010-02-25T09:12:00.000-05:00

My friend and senior pastor, Mickey Connolly, did an excellent series on Marriage recently at Crossway Community Church in Charlotte, NC. I would encourage you to listen to all four parts. (they start on January 12, 2010).

Tebow Commercial and a Washington Post Feminist

2010-02-04T11:41:00.003-05:00

This is a very interesting and well written article about Tim Tebow's Super Bowl commerical by a columnist would would disagree with Tebow's Pro-Life stance. Enjoy!

ESPN Magazine and Transgender Reporters

2010-01-25T09:00:00.001-05:00

Most nights, my wife and I will end our evening with reading in bed. About once per month I will read my new ESPN magazine. Last week, I got the latest ESPN magazine and read through the many articles while really needing to turn the light off and go to sleep. I kept saying in my mind..."Okay, this will be the last article." But then I would read another one. Finally, I ended up at the final article of the magazine. This one was by Rick Reilly (seen in photo) who is one of my favorite columnists. It was called called "Sometimes One Death Can Mean Two Losses." Unlike a lot of Reilly's articles this article was greatly disappointing. It talked about a reporter that he knew who killed himself. That is disturbing, but what is more disturbing is that throughout the article Reilly referred his friend as "he" or "she" because the man became a woman during part of his life and then went back to being a man again.

It was so sad to hear about someone being depressed and killing themselves and it was also sad to see ESPN blur the distinction between gender. In the same magazine (actually two pages prior) a professional fighter was asked if he would ever fight a woman and he said an emphatic "No!" But if you read the article by Reilly, you behold a gender confused, pronoun perplexed article in which there is no definition on the meaning of being a "man" or being a "woman."

Genesis 2 shows God creating man and woman. No amount of surgeries or hormones change that. The guy who had a sex change did not cease to be a guy because he dressed like a girl. "He" was not a "she." "He" was still a "he" even when he dressed like a "she."

So, I turned my light out and tossed and turned for about an hour because instead of reading about sports, I read about a transgender suicide. I am sorry for the man's sad situation and for his family, but I also wish that ESPN would keep the distinction of male and female like most athletics do. The Olympic committee will take away medals if a "he" tries to compete like a "she." ESPN should know the difference.

The Eye of the Tiger in Us All

2009-12-11T16:22:00.003-05:00

The recent reports of Tiger Woods affairs is saddening (11 and counting). I think this is a good time for all of us (especially men) to take a step back and evaluate life. If you are anything like me, you were pretty surprised by Tiger’s hidden lifestyle and now you are disappointed in him. Let’s remember though, that we are all capable of such acts. We may think, “I would never do such a thing to my wife and children.” Well, I pray you and I don’t, but these kinds of sins don’t begin in full blown adultery. They begin in the lustful glance, the inappropriate website, and the friendly conversation with someone of the opposite sex.

Let Tiger’s mistake(s) be for our learning. Here are a few things we could evaluate from this.

1. Where are the “little foxes” (to use Song of Solomon language)that will ruin the vineyard of our relationship with our spouse? Pornography? Lingering over an immoral past? Second glances?

2. The phrase “I can look, I just can’t touch” is just the beginning of “I need to touch.” We must see that sin is never satisfied. If we don’t sever it, it will grow. If we don’t starve it, we are feeding it.

3. I once heard Jerry Bridges say for men to “live scared.” He didn’t mean we needed to be crippled by the idea of adultery, but to be very aware that we are all capable of extreme sins.

4. Have accountability. Do you have someone you talk to about even the smallest lustful glances or immoral dreams or accidental pop-up ads? If you can’t think of anyone…you don’t. Get someone…now! Confess your temptations and fight lust in the very early stages so it never leads to the hotel room with another woman, the fight with your wife, and the crashing or your marriage.

5. Be in a church that practices church discipline. Mine does and I am glad. If I wander, I have men (and women) that will come after me and confront me. This is grace even to know it is there. It is also God’s grace as a warning to me as I have seen others confronted (and even had to confront some).

6. The verse, “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul” (Mark 8:36) should make us evaluate the way we value “things” and the way we pray for Tiger Woods’ soul.

May God grant repentance to Tiger and may his marriage be saved. I pray that the heat would continue to come to him until he sees that there is only one treasure…and it is not girls, golf, or gold…it is Jesus.

Biblical Womanhood in South Korea

2009-11-28T09:00:00.000-05:00

I've been out of the blog world for several weeks in preparation for a trip, then actually on the trip, and then recovering from jet lag (and getting caught up on work). It is good to be back home!

One of the places I went was Seoul, South Korea. I had a wonderful time with Songwhan and Miran Kang, who have just started the first Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM) Church in South Korea. Songwhan attended the SGM Pastor's College last year and is a humble man. It was wonderful seeing his gifts and how God is using this man to build establish a local church in a city of 10 million people.

It was also very interesting to me how Miran Kang is getting a lot of questions from ladies about biblical womanhood. South Korea is a country that is probably more "Christianized" than the United States and yet, biblical womanhood is not as understood as I had expected. The South Korean society places pressure on the women to put carriers first and family second. Miran has ladies calling her all of the time wanting her to explain how she and Songwhan came to the conclusion of her staying home with her boys and homeschooling them. It is a rarity in South Korea. Miran speaks first to these ladies about the gospel, but then explains how biblical womanhood is seeking to live out specific passages in the Bible. Obviously, a lady does not have to quit her job or start homeschooling to be positioned toward her home and Miran does not teach that. However, in a society where men (and women) work about 14 hours per day (sometimes even on weekends...because I learned "weekend" is a Western idea) and job status is often the equivalent to social status, the pressure of a women to focus on everywhere but her home is tremendous.

Miran said that biblical womanhood has been a breath of fresh air to many Christian ladies. She gets random phone calls from ladies seeking to learn more. She also gets lots of questions from the young moms who spent their lives seeking to build a resume and make good grades to benefit a career, but have never learned how to be a good wife or care for children. Miran is not on a crusade to turn every lady to biblical womanhood, she is on a mission to love the people of her country and point them to the gospel. She trusts that as the bible is taught, biblical womanhood will follow.

Blogiversary!

2009-10-22T15:05:00.002-04:00

Three years ago, today, while living in Gaithersburg, Maryland and attending the Sovereign Grace Pastors College I started this blog. I pray that it has helped men and women grow in a greater understanding of biblical manhood and womanhood.

The Gospel and Biblical Manhood and Womanhood

2009-10-16T16:02:00.002-04:00

How closely related is "biblical manhood and womanhood" to the gospel? John Starke seeks to answer that question in a recent CBMW post.

McCulley on "Drunk: The New Female Tenderness?"

2009-10-07T09:00:00.000-04:00

[My friend, Carolyn McCulley had this intriguing observation in her post last week. I had never thought about this topic in this way and thought my readers would find it equally thought provoking.]

So I'm watching the latest romantic comedy when I sense it coming. "Oh, no, here comes the drunk scene," I groan aloud.

Everyone else in the room looks at me, question marks popping up over their heads.

"Watch," I say, gesturing toward the TV. "This is the turning point in their relationship. She gets drunk. He has to care for her. She has to stop being her pugnacious self and dial down her obnoxious-meter. She finally receives some protection and leadership from him, and his ability to see her in a tender way changes their relationship dynamic."

Ten seconds later, the script plays out in the predicted manner. And I want to pull my hair out of my head! Why is this the required plot point in 99 out of a 100 romantic comedies?!

My answer? Because Hollywood has no other device to help young women receive the care and leadership of men--other than to have them get falling-down drunk. Until that point, every female rom-com character is outspoken, in-your-face, quirky, and reeking of insecurities that are propped up by a brittle facade of self-confidence. She spars with her love interest because she has not been taught to make room for him in her life, to live inter-dependently, rather than merely independently. And that independence is a sham, anyway, as the drunk scene inevitably reveals. She needs the help of others, but she is too proud to admit it. And that's when his care comes along. He tames her, so to speak, in her drunkennness. She stops fighting him and learns to trust him, but only after she has been humbled by being out of control herself.

Once the drunk scene is out of the way, the scriptwriters now have a reason for the male and female lead characters to work together, to trust each other, and to have some mutual care for each other. It is sad that women are being told over and over again that 1) this kind of trust and tenderness can only come about by losing self-control, and 2) that alcohol is a female problem (I never see the men getting drunk in these movies anymore).

My recommendation is that when you watch these movies, point out this contradiction to those watching with you--especially if they are young men and women. Our culture doesn't have a framework for masculine benevolence anymore, which is sad. It seems the only way to showcase that quality is for someone to be so obviously helpless, as in a drunk scene, and then it's okay for a man to exert protective qualities. As for young women, help them to understand that feminine tenderness and receptivity is a good thing, that men today are still looking for that quality, and that you don't have to get drunk to find it.

Rescuing Ambition

2009-09-30T10:27:00.002-04:00

A couple weeks ago I was at a Men's Conference and heard Dave Harvey speak on "Rescuing Ambition." Let me encourage you to listen to these 4 messages. They are biblical, helpful, and I think they could be life changing for men, both young and old.

Judging Others:The Danger of Playing God

2009-09-11T11:35:00.001-04:00

The Christian Counseling and Education Foundation (CCEF) recently posted this 3 part series on judging others by Ken Sande. The posts are insightful and freshly encouraging for personal evaluation. Enjoy!
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women and Ministry, part 10

2009-09-02T09:00:00.000-04:00

Responses to question #5

In the last blog post Cheryl Schatz posed her fifth set of questions to Mike Seaver regarding their discussion/debate on women in ministry. Links to all the previous questions and responses is at the end of this post. This discussion will be Cheryl’s response to Mike’s answers on question #5 and Mike’s rejoinder.
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Cheryl Schatz responds:

Mike, this has been a wonderful discussion and I thank you for your participation and the kind way that you have responded.

I would like to respond to several things that you said that I would like to question and challenge you at the same time also in a cordial manner.

Mike, you said that Paul urges men and women to prophesy but then you said that this is different than preaching and teaching. However “preach” and “expound” are in the very definition of “prophesy” according to the Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament:

(1) generally, of speaking with the help of divine inspiration proclaim what God wants to make known, preach, expound

The Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament says the word prophesy means:
proclaim God’s message, preach; prophesy, predict…

An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Lexicon says prophesy means:

II. in N.T. to expound scripture, to speak and preach under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
The Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon writes this about the word prophesy:

1C to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation. 1D to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels. 1D1 under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others.

There is enough evidence from the lexicons that “preaching” is indeed well within the meaning of “prophesy” just as “refuting” is a work of those who prophesy (a clear indication that judging prophecy is a work of everyone capable of prophesying) see the Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon above. There is no direct prohibition against a woman or anyone else that would forbid them from judging prophecy. Even Paul submitted himself to being judged by those who were wise and sensible:

1 Corinthians 10:15 I speak to sensible people, judge for yourselves what I say. (ESV)

To deny women from judging is to deny the universal call to judge, discern and test all things. In 1 Thessalonians 5:20, 21 we are all told not to despise prophetic utterances, but we are all to examine everything carefully!

1 Thessalonians 5:20 do not despise prophetic utterances.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; NASB

The Greek word in 1 Thess. 5:21 that is rendered “examine” is “dokimazo”. The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament says about “dokimazo”:

This word is very rare, there being no instances prior to Paul. It means “testing” or “certifying”.
The Analytical Lexicon of the New Testament says of this word:

As making an examination put to the test, examine, prove (by testing)

The Complete Word Study Dictionary says of this Greek word:

To try, prove, discern, distinguish, approve. It has the notion of proving a thing whether it is worthy or not.

As I recorded in our second post, the weighing of the prophetic utterances was done in a question and answer discussion/debate format which all were given the opportunity to be a part of the testing and proving. This is the judging that Paul was speaking about in 1 Cor. 14:29. I notice that you did not respond to any of the scriptures I gave that proved that discernment and evaluation is to be a part of each one of our lives as we grow toward maturity. These are Christian activities that are commanded for all to participate in. All of us are to test and judge. Why? Because in the next age we will all judge the world and the angels.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

Surely if women are going to judge the world and the angels in the future, they are also to be mature Christians who are obedient to the command to judge prophetic utterances here in this life as Paul commanded in 1 Thessalonians 5:20, 21.

Can you list even one clear verse that says that women are not to judge prophetic utterances? Can you list even one clear verse thatexempts women from the duty to test all things and to judge prophetic utterances?

Paul also made it clear that we are to desire spiritual gifts (plural). Prophesying and teaching are two of the gifts of the Spirit. Paul’s point is that all in the body are to be edified so it would be out of place to have Paul commanding that women should desire spiritual gifts but then have Paul refuse to allow part of the body (women) to use their gifts for the common good. All of the body is to be edified and all of the members of the body are allowed to edify Christ’s body.
The quote in 1 Cor. 14:34, 35 is completely out of character and out of line with both verse 36 and the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 14 that appears before these two “out of place” verses.

The only solution to the contradiction that these verses bring to the passage is to accept that Paul is once again quoting from the letter that the Corinthians wrote to him. The fact that this is the longest quote that Paul makes from the letter in no way exempts it from being a quote. It just means that it was a quote that Paul felt needed to be quoted exactly as it was written so that he could properly refute the quote in the following verses (1 Cor. 14:36-40). If this is not a quote from the Corinthians, then what was Paul refuting in verse 36? How could Paul possibly have made so many commands for all of us to test and discern all things (including prophesying) and then turn around and say that women were not to test the prophesying? This would make God out to be one who contradicts His own word.

If women were to listen to this unclear “law” and refuse to use their gifts for the benefit of all, where would this leave them in the eyes of the Lord? What happens when some refuse to edify others in the body of Christ? Warren Wiersbe comments that the Corinthians were selfish instead of loving one another by looking for the common good. He writes:

To edify means “to build up.” This concept is not alien to the “body” image of the church; even today, we speak about “bodybuilding exercises.” There is an overlapping of images here, for the body of Christ is also the temple of the living God. Paul’s choice of the word edify was a wise one.
The mistake the Corinthians were making was to emphasize their own personal edification to the neglect of the church. They wanted to build themselves up, but they did not want to build up their fellow believers. This attitude, of course, not only hurt the other Christians, but it also hurt the believers who were practicing it. After all, if we are all members of the same body, the way we relate to the other members must ultimately affect us personally. “The eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee” (1 Cor. 12:21). If one member of the body is weak or infected, it will affect the other members. W. Wiersbe, The Bible exposition commentary.

Body ministry requires the gifts to be used for the common good. Can you show even one scriptures where Paul or any other apostle say that women are to teach exclusively women and children? Can you quote a verse that says that women are to teach, prophesy, interpret tongues for women and children alone? Rather than a divided body, the body is to function with all the gifts for the growth of the entire body so that we grow together. What use would it be to have huge arms on the body if the body nourishment was denied the legs? Would puny legs that get only half the nourishment be acceptable for a healthy, well-functioning body? Does the brain discriminate against the legs and provide only full nourishment to the arms? Not at all. In the same way, the body of Christ has each body member work to build up the entire body with the gifts that God has given to each one. The leg cannot say “Let the arms minister to each other. I, as a leg, don’t need the work of the arms to benefit me.”

You wrote as a quote:
Paul is likely forbidding women to speak up and judge prophecies (this is in line in the immediate context; cf. 1 Cor 14:29) since such an activity would subvert male headship. ‘ Law also says’. Paul is probably thinking of the woman’s creation “from” or “for” the man. (see 11:8-9; Gen. 2:20-24) as well as a general pattern of male leadership among the people of Israel in the OT.

Here I notice once again that the terms “likely”, “probably” “general pattern” are quoted. This is an unclear bugle sound that cannot produce a clear prohibition against women who are willing to obey the command to test, judge and discern. Nowhere does Paul ever say that women are exempt from the command but should trust their husbands to discern for them. We are commanded to be mature and to think and reason for ourselves using the clear foundation of the scriptures. And any “pattern” of male leadership that is “general” but which had clear exceptions created by God Himself even within a patriarchical society, is not a “law”.

Mike, when you say that “it is difficult to see this as an absolute prohibition”, you show that women speaking in the assembly whether by prophesying or by judging the prophesying cannot be considered a sin. An absolute prohibition is always a sin. Exceptions disprove a universal law.

Again you have used the term “likely”. However sin isn’t something that we should ever be unsure about. God has given us the terms of his law with two or three witnesses and in a clear and understandable fashion so that we can stay away from sin. The sin defined as “not judging prophesies” is not only an unclear law that cannot bring a judgment of sin, but it contradicts the fact that women are to judge for themselves here on earth and in the future when they too will be judging the angels. Judging the world and the angels is something that the body of Christ will do – not just the men.

There is also no such thing as universal male “headship”. The husband is the “head” of the wife in a one-flesh union, but no man is the “head” of anyone else. The only other “head” is Jesus Christ who is the “head” of the body. Any other “headship” is adding to God’s word.
Without a hard and fast “rule” that forbids women from teaching the bible to men or forbids them from serving men with their leadership abilities, there can be no charge of sin. If there is no charge of sin, then we are not to put a stumbling block before another believer. We are to let them serve in freedom as a servant of Christ.

I would like to end this response by quoting a public challenge that Wade Burleson (a Southern Baptist Pastor) recently gave in an address at the Midwest Regional New Baptist Covenant Conference in Norman Oklahoma. Pastor Wade’s words aboutbuilding bridges is very appropriate for our discussion. Pastor Wade said:

Tonight I speak for myself only. My confession and corresponding repentance
is personal, spoken with a heart that genuinely desires to do my part to build
bridges between all Baptists who name Christ as Lord….

I do not know of one time when Christ has ever withheld from me any
good gift, has stifled my expression of any praise of Him, or shut me up from
proclaiming His Word – so logically His commandment to love my sisters in Christ
as He has loved me should negate any and every attempt to withhold from our
faith community a Baptist woman gifted by Christ. Our obedience to His command
should preclude any attempt to stifle a Baptist woman compelled to publicly
praise Jesus Christ. It should lead us to resist any effort to shut up or censor
any Baptist woman called to preach Christ and Him crucified. It is impossible
for my Baptist brothers to point to any text – let me repeat this – it is
impossible for my Baptist brothers to point to any text, that is properly
understood in its context, that ever compels Baptist men to suppress Baptist
women in terms of ministry. On the contrary, we are called by our Lord to
support and love those women of faith just as our Lord has loved us…

You may not like the fact that women are now being called by God to
preach, or called by God to do missions, or called by God to teach. You may even
consider it a violation of your principles for a woman to teach a man, or preach
Christ to a man, or baptize a man, or lead a man, but there is one thing that
you and I cannot - we must not - forget.

You and I are called to love each and every sister in
Christ who feels called to ministry. We are called to affirm the dignity of
every Christian woman called to minister. We are commanded to treat them with
respect and civility. We are also called to love, respect and affirm the
autonomy of local Baptist congregations and denominations that utilize these
gifted women in ministry as they see fit. To censor them, reject them, abuse
them or condemn their character is a sin of the first order. (See full
transcript of this speech at Wade Burleson's blog.)

Indeed we are called to build bridges. This is the time to build bridges towards our sisters in Christ who have been called to ministry. Is it not a time to love them and affirm their gifts instead of stifling them and holding them back from serving the body of Christ?
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Mike Seaver's rejoinder:

Cheryl,
Thanks again for your response.
I just wanted to clarify with you (and everyone else) that my intention in blogging is not to be able to answer absolutely every question. You critiqued me for not answering a question, but as I cut and pasted your response, it was 7 pages long. I can’t answer every question you ask and still keep my day job. I’m enjoying the debate, but know that I am purposefully limiting my interaction due to time. I know you understand, but I just wanted to say that to clarify.

There are tons of questions you ask in your response and I appreciate them. I am going to focus on your first question and this is about whether prophesy is the same as preaching and teaching. Obviously, women can prophesy, so if preaching and teaching are included in prophesy, then the logical conclusion you make is that they can preach and teach.

I understand the definitions you gave, but what I don’t understand is how you can make a blanket statement definition of prophesy for your argument and use every use of the definition and say…basically, “so there…the Greek Lexicon says it, so it’s true.” Well, yes, the Greek Lexicon does say it as you quoted, but most scholars would agree that there are different types of prophesy. The prophesy in 1 Corinthians 14 is not the same as when “prophesy” is used in other parts of the New Testament (and Old Testament). I don’t think either of us would say that the prophesy in 1 Cor. 14 is on par with Scripture, but rather it is a prophetic word that is given while seeing through a glass dimly(1 Cor. 13:9-12)…and should be judged. Scripture should not be judged in this same way. The Mark 7:6 uses the word “prophesy” and the meaning does refer to a passage of Scripture.

Mark 7:6 And he said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

And this use of prophesy should be included in a Greek Lexicon definition and it is. Isaiah was preaching and teaching and had authoritative, but the “prophesy” referred to in Mark 7:6 is different than 1 Cor. 14’s use of the same word.

Paul also speaks of prophesy as being different from teaching.

Romans 12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,

If Paul wanted to group prophesy and teaching together, he could have, but he didn’t. To Paul, these were different gifts. Could someone have both gifts, sure, but should we say that all who prophesy are also given the authority to teach? I don’t think so.

As for Wade Burleson’s quote. If my position is correct, am I loving my sisters in Christ by inviting them to do what Scripture forbids? Consistency with my position would say that would be unloving. You are calling “love” what I am calling “disobedience to Scripture.” You are calling “sin” what I am calling “trying to live by what the text says.” I do not hate my sisters in Christ, those who know me can attribute to that.

However, I will do what I can in my life to not compromise on what Scripture teaches, whether it is on fundamentals of the gospel like justification by faith, or on issues like biblical roles. Here I stand. Hopefully, humbly…hopefully willing to engage those who oppose my views and willingly be challenged. Hopefully building bridges of communication and friendship and respect.
Thanks again, Cheryl for being willing to debate this matter.

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Comment by Mike Seaver: Due to the busyness of my schedule, I'm going to have to postpone the second part of this debate for awhile. My wife, children, and pastoral ministry come before blogging. Lord willing, we can continue this debate in the coming months.
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Links to previous segments of the debate:
Questi0n #1 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #1
Question #2 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #2
Question #3 by Cheryl and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #3
Question #4 by Cheryl and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #4
Question #5 by Cheryl Schatz and Mike Seaver's answers

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 9

2009-08-31T09:00:00.002-04:00

This is question #5 of a 10 question discussion/debate between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on the issue of women in ministry. The discussion will take the form of five questions posed by Cheryl Schatz with answers by Mike Seaver and then five questions posed by Mike Seaver with answers by Cheryl Schatz. Each question and answer session will be followed up in the next post by one response each from both Mike and Cheryl. Links to the questions and the responses will be at the bottom of this post.

Question #5 by Cheryl Schatz:

Does God contradict Himself? In 1 Corinthians 14: 1, 5, 12, 24-26, 31, 39 Paul commands all to desire earnestly to prophesy and he gives them all permission to prophesy in the assembly so that all may learn. How could Paul give multiple commands before and after 1 Cor. 14:34, 35 if women are to keep silent in the church? Whose commands are women supposed to obey - the commands throughout 1 Corinthians 14 that command us to desire to prophesy and give us encouragement and opportunity to prophesy in the assembly or a verse that has no link to any known God-ordained law?

Does God contradict Himself, or is it possible that Paul is once again quoting from the letter that the Corinthians wrote him and which has Paul correcting their false view in 1 Corinthians 14:36? Can you please explain how 1 Cor. 14:34, 35 is a universal law for all godly women for all of church history within the context of all the things that Paul has written throughout the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 14?
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Mike's answer:

No, I don’t think God contradicts Himself. He can’t. If he did, he would cease to be God. That would be scary for all of us!

I know what you are meaning though…This is similar to your first question and I think I answer a lot of it there. Paul wants and urges men and women to prophesy, which biblically is different than preaching or teaching. Verses 34-35 are speaking about a woman not judging the prophetic word publically, but she should talk to her husband about it.

Again (to cut and paste my answer to question #1). I think the ESV Study Bible is helpful.
14:34-35 Since Paul seems to permit wives to pray and prophesy (11:5, 13) as long as they do not dishonor their husbands by the way they dress (11:5), it is difficult tosee this as an absolute prohibition (cf. Acts 2:17, 21:8-9). Paul is likely forbidding women to speak up and judge prophecies (this is in line in the immediate context; cf. 1 Cor 14:29) since such an activity would subvert male headship. ‘ Law also says’. Paul is probably thinking of the woman’s creation “from” or “for” the man. (see 11:8-9; Gen. 2:20-24) as well as a general pattern of male leadership among the people of Israel in the OT.

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Cheryl’s response and Mike’s rejoinder will follow on September 2, 2009.
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Links to previous segments of the debate:
Questi0n #1 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #1
Question #2 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #2
Question #3 by Cheryl and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #3
Question #4 by Cheryl and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #4

Helping Heartbeat of Miami

2009-08-28T11:27:00.005-04:00

My wife and I have been helping Heartbeat of Miami for a few years now. The other day we received a letter that they may have to close their doors.

Heartbeat of Miami is a crisis pregnancy center that was strategically planted in Miami, Florida, the city in the USA with the highest abortion rate. John Ensor and others had a vision for planting these centers in strategic cities and this was their first one. Here are some staggering statistics.

They are the only crisis pregnancy center in that part of the city and their are 37 abortion clinics.

In 3 years [Update: It has actually been 2 years...sorry] that Heartbeat of Miami has been open, over 4000 ladies have been served and over 1000 babies have been saved.

Their financial support is down 48% this year.

Please consider making a donation...even a $5 donation to help unborn babies have the gift of life. You can go here to donate and click on the green button that says "Donate Now." There is also a matching program through the end of August 2009, so if you give $5...it is acutally like giving $10. If you give $50...it is like giving $100. Please pray and if you feel the Lord leading you, please give.

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 8

2009-08-26T09:00:00.001-04:00

Responses to question #4

In the last blog post Cheryl Schatz posed her second set of questions to Mike Seaver regarding their discussion/debate on women in ministry. Links to all the previous questions and responses is at the end of this post. This discussion will be Cheryl’s response to Mike’s answers on question #4 and Mike’s rejoinder.

Cheryl Schatz responds:
Mike, I am very happy that you admit that there is no verse that instructs elders to stop women from using their gifts. In fact as the body of Christ we are to encourage one another in our gifts. And we are told not to judge in these secondary areas.

Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

There is a faithful solution to women teaching the bible to men. It is to encourage the women to teach and do not stop them from teaching. We should allow those men whose bible-trained conscience does not stop them from accepting the good gifts that God gives through women, to stay and receive from the Lord. Then let's give those men whose conscience is weak and who do not believe it is right for a man to listen to a woman, the ability to leave quietly and respectfully. But whatever we do, scripture does not say that a woman is not allowed to teach if she is teaching the truth. Let her teach and encourage her by acting as one who values both the woman and her gifts because if you refuse to listen to her, she will most certainly receive the message that what she says has no value.

When we try to put limits on another fellow member of the body of Christ, and they do not accept our man-made limits, we may end up treating them with contempt, but the way of love shows that we need to let these women be responsible for their conscience before the Lord on these debatable matters.

Romans 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."

Romans 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

Romans 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.

It is a godly thing not to be an obstacle in the path of our own brother or sister in the Lord.
Mike, you said that God has set parameters on His gifts. However if you look closely at the restrictions in the Scripture, you will notice it is only the gifts that do not benefit all that are restricted and even these gifts are not completely restricted and they are never restricted by gender. It is God’s intention that the gifts He gives benefits all. Prophesy benefits all. Teaching benefits all. Tongues without interpretation benefits only one. Men’s and women’s gifts benefit all.

Lastly we are told that we are not to allow our freedom to be spoken of as evil.

Romans 14:16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;

A woman’s gift of teaching the Bible is not something that becomes evil when a man walks in the door. Her gifts are also for thecommon good so that the entire body will grow together instead of growing apart and separated.
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Mike Seaver's rejoinder:
Cheryl, once again, thanks for your response. It is a joy communicating with you about this issue.

First off, you said, "There is a faithful solution to women teaching the bible to men. It is to encourage the women to teach and do not stop them from teaching. We should allow those men whose bible-trained conscience does not stop them from accepting the good gifts that God gives through women, to stay and receive from the Lord."

Cheryl, I don't think this is a conscience issue. It is not like eating meat or not eating meat sacrificed to idols. Paul says don't allow it (1 Tim 2:12), and so we shouldn't say that it is okay for those who have strong consciences. I'm not saying that "women teaching men" is on the same level as those who are homosexual, but the same arguments you use of "conscience" and "don't judge" is the very same argument I hear from homosexuals. Anyone can say that some have strong consciences and some have weak consciences (and most of us always seem to think we have the strong consciences). Homosexuals also say that anyone who says what they are doing is wrong is judging them. Though I do not associate homosexuals and the gravity of that sin (Romans 1) with "woman teaching men", they do both have some commonalities in their arguments. They both dismiss Biblical passages that speak to an opposite view of what they hold. They both hold their view in the name of Christian freedom. They both say that the passages that speak against their view are culturally binding, but not binding for today. They both say that God made them or gifted them in a certain way and that God would not do that if he did not intend them to live it out. You see, Cheryl, your arguments are a slippery slope. You do not have a passage that says, "Women should teach and exercise authority over a man," but 1 Timothy 2:12 says, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man...." This is huge difference in our arguments.

The idea of women not teaching men is an instruction set in which to do it is to obey it and to not do it is to disobey it.
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Question #5 will go on-line on August 31st with the responses set for September 2, 2009.
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Links to previous segments of the debate:
Questi0n #1 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #1
Question #2 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #2
Question #3 by Cheryl and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #3
Question #4 by Cheryl and Mike's answers

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 7

2009-08-24T09:00:00.000-04:00

This is question #4 of a 10 question discussion/debate between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on the issue of women in ministry. The discussion will take the form of five questions posed by Cheryl Schatz with answers by Mike Seaver and then five questions posed by Mike Seaver with answers by Cheryl Schatz. Each question and answer session will be followed up in the next post by one response each from both Mike and Cheryl. Links to the questions and the responses will be at the bottom of this post.

#4 Question by Cheryl Schatz:

God has given us the authority to use our gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ in 1 Peter 4:10, 11:

1 Peter 4:10 As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

1 Peter 4:11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

If God has gifted a woman with the gift of speaking "the utterances of God" in the strength of service that God supplies, by what authority does man have to forbid a woman from using that authority for speaking the utterances of God? Please show a verse that instructs all pastors, elders, leaders to single women out and stop them from using their utterance gifts?
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#4 Answer by Mike Seaver:
I don’t think there is a verse. I think that woman who have a speaking gift are to use it for God’s glory in the way God designed them to. If God gives the gifts, I think that it is okay for him to set parameters on the gift though. Just like He does with tongues and prophesy (1 Cor. 14). 1 Timothy 3:2 says that an overseer is the “husband of one wife/woman.” He is the teacher of the church (or one of the teachers) and in the qualifications it speaks to men. So, I think gifted women should use their gifts, but I just don’t think they should teach men (1 Tim. 2:12). They are to teach other women (Titus 2:4-5).
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Cheryl's response and Mike's rejoinder will follow on August 26th, 2009.
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Links to previous segments of the debate:
Questi0n #1 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #1
Question #2 and Mike’s answers
Responses to Question #2
Question #3 by Cheryl and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #3

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 6

2009-08-19T09:00:00.005-04:00

In the last blog post Cheryl Schatz posed her third set of questions to Mike Seaver regarding their debate on women in ministry. Links to all the previous questions and responses is at the end of this post. This discussion will be Cheryl's response to Mike's answers on question #3 and Mike's rejoinder.
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Cheryl's response:
Mike, I would like to once again to affirm you as a person and as a dear brother in Christ. I appreciate that you have taken the time to listen to my questions and to give your answers.
Regarding your answer, where does the scripture say that being taught by a person places you under their authority? Is Apollos said to be under the authority of Priscilla when she taught him? No it does not. This is the world’s way of thinking that has creeped into the church. We are always thinking about who is the boss but Jesus said that the greatest is to be the servant of all, not the boss of all. Leading and teaching is a position of servanthood and it is not a place of taking authority over the student. The reason is because humans are not the authority. God’s word is the authority.

If a woman teaches another woman, the second woman is not “under the authority” of the first woman. Since God’s Word is the authority, we can correct others and test them by God’s word. No human teacher is to take “authority over” someone who is learning from them. Instead of authority, we are to be a servant of all including our students. We are there to serve them not lord it over them. The student is to test all things and to hold fast to what is good because the teacher is not the standard – the Word of God is!

Where does the bible say that women cannot preach sermons? Can a woman preach a sermon to women? If not, why not? There is no biblical restriction against women preaching the word of God. In fact the OT shows that it is God’s command that women proclaim the good news.

Psalm 68:11 The Lord gives the command; The women who proclaim the good tidings are a great host:

If women are to evaluate other women teachers, then what happened to the so-called standard taught by complementarians that men are to be the overseers of the congregation? Are women now to be overseers of half of the congregation?

Mike, I think what has happened here is that you are giving your opinion that men listening to women teach the bible are themselves going against the scripture. Yet there is not a single word in the bible instructing men to stay away from women teachers in case they might hear them teach. Nor is there a word that men listening to women are sinning. It is also obvious that male overseers would oversee (protect) the entire congregation not just the men. Yet does the bible say specifically that men should oversee the women teachers? The bible doesn't address this, but the fact that the bible is silent on this matter does not mean that men should not oversee women lest they accidentally listen to them teach. It just means that there is no difference between a woman servant and a man servant so there is no need for God to give multiple instructions for men on how to oversee women.

Also we can think that having a man listen to a woman teacher is “going against Scripture” but there is no such command to men or even a hint of such a thing. When we go against the scripture and take a verse out of its context (1 Timothy 2:12 was written to an individual about specific problems in that church) we create a way to allow men to devalue women. If a man is told that he isn’t allowed to listen to women teach the bible, what is he going to think about her teaching? Would it not be normal that he would think that he is the one gifted to teach the church and she is an inferior teacher whose value is far less than his own value as a teacher? We do a great disservice to the body of Christ by telling men that they are not allowed to listen to women teach the bible. We create a division between males and females and we divide up by body of Christ into the elite and the non-elite. This is not the way of the Master.
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Mike's rejoinder:
Cheryl, thanks for your response. It seems odd to me that your entire case for the first part of your answer is that there is no such thing as “authority” in the church…that the Word of God is the authority and then you spend the second part of your answer saying that there is inferiority if women cannot teach men, just showing a type of authority system.

I have never said that women could not preach or teach (or however you want to say it) other women. I’ve said they should not teach or exercise authority over a man because of 1 Timothy 2:12.

I agree that men (overseers/elders/pastors) should oversee women as you said. You said, “. “ It is also obvious that male overseers would oversee (protect) the entire congregation not just the men. Yet does the bible say specifically that men should oversee the women teachers? The bible doesn't address this, but the fact that the bible is silent on this matter does not mean that men should not oversee women lest they accidentally listen to them teach.”

I completely agree with you. The male overseer/pastors/elders do oversee the entire church…that is their job as shepherds. They care for all of the sheep in their church. I don’t think that care is diminished if a pastor’s wife evaluates a ladies message instead of him sitting in the room. I don’t think it is a problem for him to sit in on a woman teaching in order to evaluate her either. I know you may say, “Well, he is placing himself under her teaching and authority” but I don’t think that is what he is doing when evaluating is his motive.

As for the idea that we are under the Bible’s authority and not the teacher’s authority, I’m baffled by your response. Of course we are ultimately under God’s authority and God’s Word is authoritative, but the teacher brings authority. What does it mean to be an overseer if you are not overseeing anything? What does it mean to be a shepherd under the authority of the Chief Shepherd if there is not an authority structure in place? What does Peter mean in 1 Peter 5: 2 when he tells elders to “shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight?” if the teaching that they provide does not bring authority? He goes on to say, “not domineering over those in your charge.” So, the temptation Peter sees is for elders to domineer…but he also says, “those in your charge.” I don’t think this is a worldly philosophy that comes outside of Scripture. Authority is good, it is biblical, it is helpful if those in authority are humble and those under authority are submissive. God designed it that way, so we can celebrate it!
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The next post in this debate will be Cheryl's fourth question to Mike and Mike's answer.
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Links:
Cheryl's Questi0n #1 and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #1
Cheryl's Question #2 and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #2
Cheryl's Question #3 and Mike's answers

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 5

2009-08-17T09:00:00.003-04:00

This is question #3 of a 10 question debate between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on the issue of women in ministry. The discussion will take the form of five questions posed by Cheryl Schatz with answers by Mike Seaver and then five questions posed by Mike Seaver with answers by Cheryl Schatz. Each question and answer session will be followed up in the next post by one response each from both Mike and Cheryl. Links to the questions and the responses will be at the bottom of this post.
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#3 Question by Cheryl Schatz:
Does God have a "law" that forbids men from listening to a woman teach the bible? If so, then where is this law given to men? If not, why not? Why would it be a sin for a woman to teach the bible but not an equal sin for a man to allow her to teach him? Also if men are not allowed to listen to a woman teach, then how will they be able to correct her errors? Are women the only ones that men cannot listen to their teaching and cannot correct their errors because they cannot listen for fear of being taught?
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#3 Answer by Mike Seaver:
Great question! I think based on my view of 1Timothy 2:12, just like a woman should not teach or exercise authority over a man (and I’m saying teach or exercise authority by teaching the bible) I think a man should equally not place himself under the authority of a woman’s teaching. I would agree that this would be equally going against Scripture. If a woman is not preaching sermons, then a man has no need to evaluate them because they do not happen. If the woman is teaching other women, then she can be evaluated by the other ladies. This happens all the time in my church. We have very gifted ladies who teach and very gifted ladies who can evaluate. My wife has a seminary masters degree…she is good at both teaching and evaluating other ladies. She also gives me tons of helpful feedback about my own messages (a lot like Pricilla with Apollos).
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In the next post, Cheryl will respond to Mike's answer and Mike will have the last word on this question as he gives the rejoinder to Cheryl's response.
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Links:
Questi0n #1 and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #1
Question #2 and Mike's answers
Responses to Question #2

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 4

2009-08-05T09:00:00.004-04:00

In the last blog post Cheryl Schatz posed her second set of questions to Mike Seaver regarding their discussion/debate on women in ministry. Links to all the previous questions and responses is at the end of this post. This discussion will be Cheryl's response to Mike's answers on question #2 and Mike's rejoinder.
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Regarding Mike's denial that there is a need for a law to have a second witness:

Cheryl Schatz responds:

I didn’t say that “scripture” needs a second witness. There is a lot in the scripture that isn’t repeated. What I did say is that a judicial matter (that is the establishing of a matter that will charge a person with sin) always comes with a second witness. All of God’s laws have been established by at least a second or third witness. Try as you might you cannot find a universal law that doesn’t have a judicial second witness. When God establishes such a requirement for our safety, we can be guaranteed that He will follow through and make every matter of sin clear so that no one will fall into sin by an unclear (bugle) warning.

1 Corinthians 14:7 Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?

1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?

1 Corinthians 14:9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

The fact is that 1 Timothy 2:12 is not recognized as a universal prohibition by a good portion of the church. Why is that? There are a lot of reasons. First of all this unique prohibition was written in a personal letter instead of a letter to the church, (not a good idea if this was to be a universal prohibition) and it was written in the words of a man and not said as a command of the Lord Jesus (this signals that it is situation-based and not universal).

Not only is it not clear that the prohibition was written to all godly women for all of time since it was written to one person concerning particular problems in that one church, but the prohibition is placed in a passage that has several obscure words and concepts that have puzzled the church for a couple of thousand years. In addition, the sanction of 1 Timothy 2:12 was written in the words of a man and not said as a command of the Lord Jesus (this signals that it is situation-based and not a universal prohibition). Added to this is the context which is about false doctrine and false teachers and there is nothing in the passage that would hint that Paul is stopping godly Christian women from their teaching of the truth. Also a universal command is unworkable with 1 Timothy 2:15 especially with the inspired grammar of singular and plural (“she” and “they” and the future tense used concerning the question of her salvation), along with the fact that the prohibition is never repeated or explained anywhere else. Lastly the prohibition is never accounted for in any list of sins. This is a massive amount of red flags that signal that the prohibition is not universal for all godly women for all of church history. It is about a particular situation in the context of false teaching.

I also established that Jesus agreed that a second witness was necessary for a judicial matter. His own testimony that He is the Son of God would be a matter that would be used to charge people with sin thus it was a matter that needed a second witness. It seems inconsistent then that God would fail to give Christian women a second witness in a matter that would charge them universally with sin for teaching the truth about the bible. Are women to be judged for refusing to be prejudiced towards their brothers in Christ by demanding that these precious men leave the room? That is unthinkable when compared to Paul's words about body-wide edification. God loves us so much, that it is also inconceivable that He would list a sin in a personal letter and then refuse to be clear about when, how or why teaching the truth of God’s word becomes a sin merely by who is listening to her. Is a woman guilty if a man is listening and she cannot see him? If she demands that he leaves so that she can continue to teach, is she now sinning because she is “taking authority” over him? The amount of “what if’s” in this situation would require a complete Christian Talmud to sort out. Or….we could just understand that it is not a universal “law” that makes correct biblical teaching to be a sin for godly Christian women.
Jesus said that if His testimony was alone, it was still truth, yet it was not considered lawful without a second witness. Jesus submitted to the law of the second witness and He provided a second, third and fourth witness to lawfully establish who He is. Those who refused to believe would die in their sins.

The book of Genesis confirms that repetition is used to establish a matter.
Genesis 41:32 "Now as for the repeating of the dream to Pharaoh twice, it means that the matter is determined by God, and God will quickly bring it about.

The Hebrew term for "determined" means to be firmly established, confirmed, fixed, ordained. God's law has all been firmly established and ordained with at least a second witness so that it can be used as a judgment against our sins.

God is infallible and inerrant and yet He provided a second witness to every single law that He gave. There is not one universal law that is without a second witness so we can see that God has been faithful to us to provide ample evidence regarding sin. But without a second witness, why do so many feel free to accuse godly women of being in sin depending on who is in their audience while they faithfully teach God's word? The "law" that God forbids women to teach the bible to men fails the test that this is indeed one of God’s universal laws. It is because God loves us and wants us to flee sin that He has made it very clear in scripture what sin is. Yet has God changed His mind in the area of women so that He refuses to provide a second witness that teaching the bible is sometimes a sin for them? Did God say “I forbid women to teach the bible to men”? Or is it possible that we are reading into 1 Timothy 2:12 a “law” where there is no God-ordained universal law?

The issue is not whether scripture is true or not. I agree that it is without error (in the original writings) but I also agree with Jesus that even as His testimony is true without a second witness, yet His testimony was also invalid as a judicial witness without a second witness. God gave us ample witnesses against sin. But there is no second witness that forbids godly Christian women from teaching correct biblical doctrine to men.

It will not do to deny that a second witness is needed since God Himself has ordained and provided the second witness in every instance of a judicial matter that would lead to the charge of sin. I have also documented that both Jesus and Paul submitted themselves to the necessity of the second witness in an area where a judicial matter is being established. All it would take to refute my entire argument is to provide one example of a universal law that is not repeated. If you can provide a universal law that is not repeated then you have disproven my case. If you cannot provide a universal law that is without a second witness, then you will need to explain why God has failed to establish, confirm and ordain one unique law that leaves half of the body of Christ as potentially operating in sin for doing what is never a sin issue for men? Why has God made an exception to the rule without telling us the reason He has done this to women while leaving no such unestablished law for men to be concerned about? Would this not be showing that God is a respector of persons as He has failed to establish His law only in regard to women?

God doesn't have to do anything for mankind in the first place, but since He chose to do something for all of us by communicating His law and setting up a standard to establish the law, it appears inconsistent and unsafe to have one law for all Christian women that falls outside of that established standard.

Mike you said:

As far as other theological debates go…if Scripture needs a second witness than
all those who hold a Millennial view of Premillennialism or Post Millennialism
are out of luck because only Revelation 20 speaks of a Millennium. Only
Amillennialist bring this up…usually

My claim is that judicial matters need a second witness. Scripture doesn’t need a second witness to the Millennium since it is not part of a judicial witness that is used to charge someone of sin.

You said:

Also, I think the idea that more than one source is not consulted when thinking
about whether or not women can be overseers/elders/pastors is a faulty one.
Paul, the apostle speaks about it in 1 Timothy 3:2 and in Titus 1:6.
He mentions that women should not teach or exercise authority in 1 Timothy
2:12.

There is no statement in these passages that women cannot be an overseer/elder/pastor. Also there is no charge of sin or a punishment for a woman who desires to be an overseer/elder/pastor (it is even encouraged in 1 Timothy 3:1). Nowhere in the scripture is there a charge of sin listed for a woman who is teaching correct biblical doctrine, but who fails to dismiss the men before she teaches. It is a stark omission that there is no list of sin that documents a sin that relates to women teaching the truth of the bible.

Mike you said:

The order of worship in 1 Corinthians 12-14 (specifically ch. 14) seems to speak
about men being the ones leading the corporate meeting.

Where is this "suggestion" that only men are leading? In 1 Corinthians 12 the term “brethren” is not for men only. It is a term for Christians. There is nothing there that says “men only”. In 1 Corinthians 13, the chapter is all about love. Is this all about men too? I have never seen that suggested. In 1 Corinthians 14, Paul says “the whole church” and “all”. This chapter also isn’t about only men speaking, but about the permission that is given to all to prophesy. Even church discipline is done not by the elders alone but by the church. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 2:6 -
2 Corinthians 2:6 Sufficient for such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the majority,
The edifying of the church is to be done by all, not just the men. Which verses in 1 Corinthians 12-14 say “men only”? I do not see any such verses.

You said:

Acts 20 has Paul speaking to the Ephesians elders and it seems like they were
all men and this is Luke writing (Acts 20:30 uses “men” as who will rise up from
among them). Peter and Paul speak of male headship when it comes to
marriages (1 Peter 3:1, Eph. 5:22).

There may have been only men as elders at any particular time in a church. It is a far stretch to take an historical account and make it a doctrine that only men can teach the bible to the church. Also I don’t want to go outside of this topic by talking about “headship” in marriage, but from what you have already said, it appears that you agree that a woman can teach the bible to her husband. If a woman can teach the bible to her husband when he is her “head”, then there is no reason why she cannot teach the bible to another man. There is no other “head” of the church but Jesus Himself and He has given gifts to His women “sons” for the common good.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

Mike, if women’s gifts were not for the “common good” then scripture should have told us this fact rather than what was inspired where Paul commands all to desire the gifts for the common good.

Mike you said:

So, while the Bible never says, “godly women who teach right doctrine are not
allowed to teach men” it certainly seems to imply that there is a biblical
headship and leadership that men are responsible to provide.

As I said there is no “headship” in the church except for Jesus. The bible never says males are held responsible to provide leadership. This is reading into the text something that is not there.

Mike you said:

It is great for women to use their gifts and teach. It
is just that
the Bible says that women should not do this with men present

On top of the problems that I have already documented, this kind of interpretation implies that women’s gifts are for some reason inferior to men’s gifts or it devalues men since men are not allowed to receive the work of God's Spirit through women.

This interpretation devalues men if women’s gifts are valuable because men then are forbidden to receive the edification that women are allowed to receive. Women then are given by God the benefit of the gifts of both men and women. They receive encouragement and edification by unique gifts that are given to both males and females. But men have only ½ the gifts for their own benefit. Does God want to punish men because He forbids them from benefiting from some of God’s gifts while freely allowing women to receive all of the gifts?

However if women’s gifts are NOT valuable to men, then women's spiritual gifts are inferior and unnecessary gifts for them. A male could say “Women’s gifts may be valuable to women, but I as a male certainly don’t need to receive women's gifts.” But we have told that we cannot say this.

1 Corinthians 12:21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."

A male cannot say that he (personally) does not need women’s gifts. Our gifts are given for the common good, not just for women.
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Mike's rejoinder:

Cheryl, thanks for engaging the conversation again and for your response.
You said Scripture does not need a second witness, but then you said, “[1 Timothy 2:12] was written in a personal letter instead of a letter to the church, (not a good idea if this was to be a universal prohibition), it was written in the words of a man and not said as a command of the Lord Jesus (this signals that it is situation-based and not universal)…”

How is this not saying that Scripture needs a second witness? Timothy was an elder of the Ephesian church and the letter was circulated as Scripture and is thus in our bibles. If all of 1 and 2 Timothy are just for that day and age and not for today, is Christ really our Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5) are the positions of overseer and deacon necessary (1 Timothy 3:1-12)? Is all Scripture breathed out by God (2 Timothy 3:16)? Are Paul’s words in a letter to young Timothy Scripture or not? Are Jesus words that are in red (in some bibles) more inspired than other texts? I think all of the Bible is inspired equally, so to say that Paul’s letter is not as useful as Jesus words is unsettling.

So, the “law” idea that you build up is set on the principle that one passage (especially from a personal letter) cannot be enough to allow for a teaching to be true. If Paul wrote to Timothy, “Women should not be elders at any church because that is a position of authority that a man is to take.” You would say that this is cultural, not abiding by a law of consistency in other passages, and thus discarded. But, what if Paul said what he meant and the teaching to Timothy are for the entire church, just as those who put the canon together desired. If something is written one time in Scripture, it must be dealt with as Scripture and not tossed out because there is not an identical passage or teaching found in Jesus’ words.

You said, “All it would take to refute my entire argument is to provide one example of a universal law that is not repeated. If you can provide a universal law that is not repeated then you have disproven my case.” Though I have articulated that I don’t think your argument works, I will explain another universal law that does not have a second witness. The Lord’s Supper. Is it sinful to eat the Lord’s Supper in an unworthy manner? I say, “Yes” because 1 Corinthians 11:27 says, “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.” It goes on to say that people drink judgment on themselves by improperly taking the Lord’s Supper. Thus a sin, thus a “law” (as you define it), yet there is no second witness. This is the only passage in scripture stating this case. You would have to say “no” it is not sinful to eat the Lord’s Supper in an unworthy manner. You would have to say that there would need to be a second witness for this to be sinful, but there isn’t. Thus a universal law, that is only stated once in Scripture…and I believe it is stated the amount of times it is needed to heed it’s teaching…once.

When talking about 1 Cor. 12-14, I’m not saying that the passage is for men only, both men and women are to use their gifts for the common good in an orderly way, I am saying that the authority in the passage is enacted by the leadership. How else does the order happen? Someone has to be taking the authority to have order. The church had order and Paul assumes that there is authority in the church. I assume that we would both agree that the elders or pastors would be overseeing the corporate meeting. If there are men and women pastors, then I would assume they would both be carrying out the authority of overseeing the corporate meeting, but what if the women pastors were publically correcting prophesies? This seems to be going against 1 Cor. 14:34-35. Like we have and will discuss with other questions, I don’t think this passage speaks of a rule to have women not speak at all, but that they are not to have authority to publicly judge the a wrong prophesy and thus correct it.

This passage can’t be seen as a quotation from another Corinthian letter as you say just because you disagree with the wording as it is stated without quotation marks.

DA Carson said, “It is very doubtful that verses 34-35 constitute a quotation,
perhaps from the Corinthians’ letter. During the last decade and a half,
one notable trend in Corinthian studies has been to postulate that Paul is
quoting the Corinthians in more and more places—usually in places where the
commentator does not like what Paul is saying! That Paul does quote from
the Corinthians’ letter no one disputes. But the instances that are almost
universally recognized as quotations (e.g. 6:12; 7:1b; 8:1b) enjoy certain
common characteristics: (i) they are short (e.g. “Everything is
permissible for me,” 6:12); (ii) they are usually followed by sustained
qualification (e.g., in 6:12 Paul goes on to add “but not everything is
beneficial…but I will not be mastered by anything”—and then, following one more
brief quotation from their letter, he devotes several verses to the principle he
is expounding); (iii) Paul’s response is unambiguous, even sharp. The
first two criteria utterly fail if we assume verses 34-35 are a quotation from
the letter sent by the Corinthians.”

Lastly, Cheryl, you said, “The problem with this [women not teaching men] is that it makes women’s gifts inferior or it devalues men.” I don’t think Elizabeth Elliot, Carolyn Mahaney, or Dorothy Patterson feel inferior. None of them seek to teach men, yet all of them are very good teachers. I actually think they are esteemed more and are treated better for taking a strong view on biblical womanhood.

If God says the way he creates things are good, why does one using the gifts the way God desires have to be inferior or superior. All gifts are from God anyway. We haven’t earned gifts, but they are from God for his glory and the edification of the church. Women are equal in worth and value, not inferior.
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Because of time off to enjoy the summer weather with family, question #3 from Cheryl and Mike's answer to this set of questions will not be posted until August 17th and it will show up on both Cheryl's and Mike's blog at that time. In the meantime we would like to thank everyone for the amount of interest shown in this discussion and the respectful comments and questions that have been posed. Because of Mike's heavy ministry schedule he may not be able to respond to questions but he would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful comments.

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 3

2009-08-03T09:00:00.003-04:00

This is question #2 of a 10 question discussion/debate between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on the issue of women in ministry. The discussion will take the form of five questions posed by Cheryl Schatz with answers by Mike Seaver and then five questions posed by Mike Seaver with answers by Cheryl Schatz. Each question and answer session will be followed up in the next post by one response each from both Mike and Cheryl. Links to the questions and the responses will be at the bottom of this post.

Question #2 by Cheryl Schatz

If God has a law that forbids godly Christian women from teaching correct biblical doctrine to men, then why is this the only "law" that does not have a second witness? God established the need for a second or third witness in Deut. 17:6 & Deut 19:15 regarding the importance of establishing a judicial matter and also for accusations of wrongdoing. When Jesus was confronted with the law of the second witness, He subjected himself to this law in John 8:13-18 thus confirming the importance of the law requiring a second witness. Jesus even stated that his testimony was not considered true without a second witness John 5:31-37. Jesus also repeated the law in Matthew 18:16 in order to establish an important matter.

Paul, like Jesus, also obeyed the law by stating that he had met the conditions of two or three witnesses in 2 Cor 13:1. In Philippians 3:1 Paul gave the reason for why important matters need to be repeated. The reason that repetition is necessary is that repetition is a safeguard for us. This important principle is strictly followed in the scripture to prepare the foundation for this universal principle that all of God's universal laws to mankind are never given to us without a confirmation. Can you explain why the only "law" that is not repeated is the "law" that forbids women from teaching men? If you disagree that every universal law has the required two or three witnesses, can you please name even one universal law that does not have a second witness?

Answer by Mike Seaver:

I think that the idea that Scripture needs a second witness is a faulty one. The idea of a second witness was set up for fallible finite humans who are sinful and thus have clarity in reasoning and thinking by having a second witness. Scripture is infallible and inerrant it needs no second witness. When Jesus says in John 5:31, “If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not deemed true.” He is not saying that his testimony is NOT true unless he has a witness, but it is not deemed true by humans and in John 8, the Pharisees. It seems like the questions comes down to a view of Scripture. Is Scripture completely true or not? Are Greek and Hebrew original writings completely without errors and completely correct in their teaching or not. If Scripture is true, it needs not second witness to be true.

As far as other theological debates go…if Scripture needs a second witness than all those who hold a Millennial view of Premillennialism or Post Millennialism are out of luck because only Revelation 20 speaks of a Millennium. Only Amillennialist bring this up…usually.

Also, I think the idea that more than one source is not consulted when thinking about whether or not women can be overseers/elders/pastors is a faulty one. Paul, the apostle speaks about it in 1 Timothy 3:2 and in Titus 1:6. He mentions that women should not teach or exercise authority in 1 Timothy 2:12. The order of worship in 1 Corinthians 12-14 (specifically ch. 14) seems to speak about men being the ones leading the corporate meeting. Acts 20 has Paul speaking to the Ephesians elders and it seems like they were all men and this is Luke writing (Acts 20:30 uses “men” as who will rise up from among them). Peter and Paul speak of male headship when it comes to marriages (1 Peter 3:1, Eph. 5:22).

So, while the Bible never says, “godly women who teach right doctrine are not allowed to teach men” it certainly seems to imply that there is a biblical headship and leadership that men are responsible to provide.

It is great for women to use their gifts and teach. It is just that the Bible says that women should not do this with men present.
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The next post will be Cheryl's response to Mike's answer and then Mike's final rejoinder on question #2.
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Previous Links:
Question #1: Cheryl's Question and Mike's Answer
Question #1: Responses by Cheryl and Mike to Q & A

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 2

2009-07-29T09:00:00.001-04:00

Last post Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz started a discussion/debate on women in ministry. Here is a link to Cheryl's Question #1 given to Mike. This post will be Cheryl's response to Mike's answers and Mike's response to Cheryl's response.
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Cheryl responds to Mike's answers:

God’s law is always clear and distinct. Paul explained in 1 Cor. 14 that a word that is not clear is as useless as speaking into the air with no one to hear or understand. Similarly a law that is not clear or distinct has no power to prepare a person to identify sin, keep away from sin and judge sin. The clearness of God’s law prevents us from misunderstanding what God requires. God has blessed us with a clear message and the clearness of the message guides our conduct.
On the contrary an unclear word produces confusion, disagreement amongst Christians and an inability to prepare for spiritual warfare.

1 Cor 14:7 Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?

1 Cor 14:8 For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?

1 Cor 14:9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

I have noticed how useful Paul’s words are for judging false interpretations about the law. Whenever I have asked complementarians to point to the “law” that forbids women from speaking in the congregation, I have noticed the indistinct sounds that come forth without a consensus among complementarians about where this “law” is to be found or even what the “law” forbids. Instead we hear indistinct words like “probably” “possibly” “seems to be” “not absolute” “likely” “general pattern”. Not only is there no “distinct” and “clear” law that can be pointed to in the Old Testament, but no matter what is “guessed” for the original location of such a “law”, complementarians are unable to explain how the wording of the OT quote qualifies as a law. How does the account of the creation of the woman provide the basis for such a “law” (no other law is ever stated in such an unclear fashion) or what the law even mean?

Some “guess” that the “law” from 1 Cor. 14:34, 35 means absolute silence of women in the assembly but they have no proof of such a “law” from the Old Testament nor do they have proof of any silence commanded to Eve. Others “guess” that it must mean that women cannot judge between truth and error spoken in a message given to the church. Others “guess” that women can indeed judge between truth and error, however they must not do it publicly. But where are all these “rules” for women listed and why is the “law” so indistinct that the church cannot come to a consensus what is and what is not forbidden for women and if there is a prohibition, how far does the prohibition extend?

Mike, you yourself admit that your interpretation of these passages may not be the same as other complementarians. This proves my point. I say that the “law” that complementarians want to claim is in these passages is so unclear that there can never be an agreement without a Christian Talmud set up outside of the bible to hash out the details of what women can and cannot do in private or in public. Would it not be better to allow the bible alone to guide our steps as we realize that there is no “law” that forbids women from speaking in the assembly?
Regarding the judgment that “others” are to do:

1 Cor 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. (ESV)

The Greek term for “weigh” (what is said) is diakrino and it means to discern.
The Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament shows this as evaluating the difference between things: discern, distinguish, differentiate.
The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament notes that in classical and Hellenistic Greek this term is mostly used for “converse” or “discussion” and that there is an art of persuasion and demonstration that comes in the form of question and answer. The idea for a time of question and answer after a speaker has given his message is popular even today in seminars and it was also common in the Christian congregation. This practice allows the audience to participate in clarifying any things that are taught which are unclear. It also allows for the discernment and evaluation that is commanded to all in 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21.

1 Thess 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit;
1 Thess 5:20 do not despise prophetic utterances.
1 Thess 5:21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

These verses in 1 Thessalonians 5, which were written by the Apostle Paul, show that examining the prophetic utterances with the end result of separating the good from the bad and holding onto that which is good, is a command to everyone. It is to be a part of our maturing in Christ. Who then can doubt that 1 John 4:1 is a command to the whole church:

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

The fact that the church has been warned that false prophets and false teachers would seek to deceive the church identifies the importance of everyone being on their guard and testing all things.

We need to take note that testing all things is an important part of Christian maturity. By using this test, we can see that there is no identifiable “law” in the Old Testament that either silences women in the congregation or stops them from evaluating a spiritual message. This is highly important. Paul could not have emphasized the importance of having a clear and distinct “sound” saying that without this clarity “how will it be known what is spoken?” and then turn around and himself give an "indistinct sound". It would be an "indistinct sound" that would link a “law” that is unidentifiable within God’s own law and an "indistinct command" for women to learn at home when this contradicts Paul’s own words that all may learn in the assembly (1 Cor 14:26, 31). Indeed God is not a God of confusion but a God of the "distinct sound" and "distinct message".

Instead of seeing 1 Cor. 14:34, 35 as Paul’s command to silence the women’s voices in the assembly and commanding them to learn at home, it is much more natural to see these words as a quote from the Corinthian’s who had written a letter to Paul (1 Cor. 7:1) that Paul answers throughout this letter. Paul’s words saying “now concerning” (1 Cor. 7:1, 25; 8:1 12:1) deal with many subjects that the Corinthians were concerned about and several that apparently were in dispute. The issue of women speaking out in prophesy would have concerned those who wanted to follow the Jewish oral law that forbid a woman’s voice from being heard in the assembly. The fact that Paul uses words of contradiction in 1 Cor. 14:36 fit with Paul's judging of the Corinthian quote as mere human commands in opposition to the commands that God has revealed through Paul throughout chapter 14. These God-given commands revealed through Paul had released women to publicly prophesy, allowed them to publicly learn, and gave them the equal obligation to evaluate and discern the truth in order to hold to what is good (1 Thess 5:21) and to judge between true and false prophets and true and false prophecies. It is when all of us practice this discernment that is for the mature (not the mature male alone), that we will be kept safe from error.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Mike, you said that there is a “general pattern” of male leadership in the Old Testament. However the term “general” does not make this a law since God chose Deborah as a Judge over Israel. When we make a “law” out of “patterns” we are outside of the clear “pattern” of God who always gave a distinct sound regarding His law. It is a man-made “law” that forbids a woman to participate in public questions and the discerning of truth from error. God has made no such law that forbids a woman to participate in public and any attempt at trying to “sort of” or “kind of” find such a law to impose on godly Christian women falls to the ground under close examination.
Mike you also said that Priscilla was not disciplined for correcting Apollos because she did the correction privately. However there was no such law that would have forbidden her from correcting him publicly. We also note that the public speaking that Apollos did that was in need of correcting was not done in the Christian assembly where both men and women had the freedom to speak out, but it was done in the synagogue where women were restricted from speaking. Since Apollos was witnessing in the synagogue about Jesus, and since he was speaking accurate things about Jesus (Acts 18:25), there was no need for a public correction. Priscilla with her husband Aquilla took Apollos aside to explain the way of God more accurately. This doesn’t imply that he was in error but that he needed to be taught what he was missing – a more accurate understanding. The Greek word for “accurate” is a term that focuses on careful attention to the details. According to the BDAG lexicon it means “strict conformity to a standard or norm, with focus on careful attention, accurately, carefully, well”.

In regards to your comment about 1 Timothy 2:12, the Greek word “authento” is a unique term that is never repeated in the scriptures. Its meaning is not altogether clear although there are no examples of a positive meaning for this word in historical records. Thus it is a very unwise thing to set up a “law” on another “unclear sound” with no biblical evidence at all that Paul was stopping godly teaching rather than stopping the teaching of error which is clear in the context of 1 Tim. 1:3, 7.

Next, if the requirements of 1 Tim. 3:2 “husband of one wife” are a “law” that forbids godly Christian women from following 1 Tim. 3:1 where “anyone” (see 1 Tim. 3:1 ESV) may aspire to the work of overseer, then it must also be a “law” that the one who does the work of overseer must also be married and must also have children (1 Tim. 3:4, 5). For anyone to make a “law” from one part of the “must be above reproach” moral requirement and fail to hold to the rest of the details in the same way, they would be appealing to an unclear sound as far as “law” goes. Those who fail to forbid single men or who fail to forbid married men who are without children from doing the work of an overseer while at the same time forbidding godly Christian women from desiring the work of an overseer, would be guilty of making a moral requirement out to be an unclear and unexplained contradictory and discrimatory “law”.

Mike, you also said that 1 Tim. 3:2 “able to teach” means that “the man is to be the teacher”. This is another unclear word. Paul did not say that only overseers can teach (although overseers in their work must be able to teach), nor did he say that only pastors and elders can teach. We cannot force 1 Timothy 3:2 as a limitation on who teaches in the congregation since this would be a very unclear word, and an unclear understanding on this passage. If Paul meant that only men could teach, then Paul could have clearly and distinctly said that only men are allowed to teach.

In 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul does not say that a woman is not allowed to teach men (plural). That would imply that the prohibition is regarding a public teaching. Instead Paul forbid “a woman” from teaching “a man” so the implication is that whatever is forbidden is applicable at least at the private one-one-one level. However the connection to deception in verse 14 and the concern about the salvation (verse 15) of the one who is stopped from teaching leads to a much more natural understanding that Paul is not stopping correct godly teaching, but the teaching of error. We simply cannot understand 1 Tim. 2:12 by removing this verse from its complete context of 1 Tim. 2:11-15. Verse 15 is the conclusion to verse 12 and without the conclusion, the prohibition becomes an indistinct sound.

If Paul is dealing with a specific situation in Ephesus regarding a specific false teacher it becomes clear why Paul put this prohibition in a personal letter to Timothy rather than in a general letter to the church. If taken as a general “law” for all godly women it becomes an indistinct and unclear “law”. Without repetition of this law anywhere else in a book to the entire church that would make the indistinct “law” to be clear, it remains as a failure to qualify as a clear, universal “law” that would set limitations on the wise biblical teaching of women. It also remains unclear why Paul would tell us in 1 Corinthians 14 that we should all seek spiritual gifts for the edification of all and then in 1 Timothy 2 force all women to withhold their God-given gifts of teaching from men. General application then is an "indistinct and unclear" sound while a specific application to a specific situation would not violate any of the liberating commands that Paul has given to women.

Mike, I really appreciate your willingness to answer questions. This openness is commendable and refreshing. I also appreciate that you have allowed your answers to be challenged and tested. I trust that all can see that the answers provided by Mike are an “indistinct sound” and an unclear “law” that fails the test of clear, biblical “laws” which were all designed by God to provide an accurate identification of sin. Without that clear sound, how will one know to turn away from sin?
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Mike's response to Cheryl:

Cheryl, thanks for your response to my answer to your question (did that make sense?!? HA!). Obviously, I disagree on numerous points, but I think our later Q&A will hit a lot of this. My greatest problem with your view is that you siphon away all the passages that could possibly go against your position instead of giving the consideration that when Paul says, “I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man”(1 Tim 2:12)…he may have really meant “I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man.” The idea that you put forth that allows woman to lead, teach, and exercise authority over men is based on me not having a “law” to back up my position. I’m really not trying to be mean hear, but I’m just reading what it says and trying to apply it. I don’t think it can be explained away that women were falsely teaching or any other explanation the make the passage to mean exactly the opposite of what it says. I agree that v.11 through 15 go together and that v. 15 is a hard verse to understand, but I don’t think we can say because the end of that passage is difficult, let’s just throw out verse 12.
I also don’t think it is wise to throw out the 1 Timothy 3:2 overseer qualification “the husband of one wife” when Paul has it in there. He could have spoken to women/wives in this context as he did in the deacon qualification in v. 8-13, but Paul didn’t. I just think there is probably a reason for that. Paul says “husband of one wife” (or “man of one woman”) to make sure that the overseer was not practicing polygamy, so hopefully a single man would not be practicing polygamy either, or he would be unqualified. A single man however would still be a “he.”
It seems like our interpretations come down to this: Is what is written true or is what is written so unclear and misconstrued that we cannot find what is true in it so we should dismiss it?

Cheryl, it is a joy to get to correspond with you and I respect you. Though we disagree, I’m thankful for the conversation.
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Next post will be Cheryl's second question to Mike.

Building Bridges: Schatz and Seaver Discuss Women in Ministry, part 1

2009-07-27T09:00:00.004-04:00

Today is the first post of a discussion between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on the issue of women in ministry. The discussion will take the form of five questions posed by Cheryl Schatz with answers by Mike Seaver and then five questions posed by Mike Seaver with answers by Cheryl Schatz. The format will be as follows:

Post 1 - Question #1 by Cheryl then answer by Mike
Post 2 - Response to Mike's answer by Cheryl and rejoinder by Mike
Post 3 - Question #2 by Cheryl then answer by Mike
Post 4 - Response to Mike's answer by Cheryl and rejoinder by Mike

This format will continue until all five questions have been posed and answered with responses by both parties. After this Mike will pose questions to Cheryl and the order above will be reversed until all five questions have been answered and responded to by both Mike and Cheryl. Mike and Cheryl will both be posting the discussions on each of their blogs. Cheryl's blog is Women in Ministry and Mike's blog is R ole Calling.

We hope that the respectful dialog that Mike and Cheryl have will be thought-provoking. Both of our blogs will be open for comments although our ability to respond to the comments may be limited due to our busy schedules. We just ask those who would like to comment feel free to do so making sure to keep on topic and with no personal attacks. God willing the discussion will be Christ-like and respectful even though both of us will be passionately arguing from our own viewpoint. We are hopeful that this will be a step towards building bridges between the two sides so that if nothing else at least complementarians and egalitarians will see the other point of view presented in a respectful manner. After all we are all in the body of Christ and despite our differences we are to love one another because we belong to one another in Christ.
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#1 Question by Cheryl Schatz:

Complementarians tells us that God has established a law that forbids women from teaching the bible to men. They say that 1 Cor. 14:34, 35 identifies the law requiring silence in the congregation while 1 Timothy 2:12 specifically forbids teaching men in the congregation.
Can you tell me when this law was established that forbids women from teaching the bible to men? Was this law established before or after Paul wrote these two passages? If it was written after Paul, then why would God allow the women under the first covenant to be free up until the time of Paul but Christian women after Paul and after the establishment of the church now have a law? If it was a law established in the Old Testament, please show us where this law is located and then please tell us why Priscilla did not adhere to the law when she taught Apollos and why she was never disciplined for breaking God's law nor was she chastised in scripture for breaking such a serious "law"?
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#1 Answer by Mike Seaver
Cheryl, thanks for the question. First off, let me say that I do not speak for all Complementarians in my answers. I speak for the way I interpret and teach the texts, so I may, at times differ in thoughts from what other Complementarians say…I’m not sure. I also want to say that I believe men and women are created equal and we are equally image bearers of God. I do not think women are lesser than men. I just think that the bible spells out differing roles (not better or worse roles) for males and females.

The 1 Corinthians 14 passage has to do with the corporate worship setting and specifically the judgment of prophetic words, so I would never use that passage to say that a women cannot teach men in a church. I don’t think that is the context or desire Paul is making in the passage. I do think that this passage shows is an ecclesiastical authority that is by men and that the men are to publically correct an errant prophetic word primarily because the women are not the elders/pastors. If a woman feels that a prophetic word is errant, she should not publically correct it, but speak to her husband about it. If he agrees, I think the husband (or husband and wife) could go to the elders to discuss it. Paul’s desire in this passage is to establish order in the Corinthian church. Chapters 12-14, and specifically chapter 14 are seeking to discuss the errors that the Corinthians were making in the area of spiritual gifts and orderly corporate meetings.
Apparently, Paul is referring to the way this should have been going on…thus bringing correction, so it appears that the “Law” that he is talking about was previously laid down prior to Paul writing this letter.

In 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul says, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” I link this passage to 1 Timothy 3:2 (which is actually only a few sentences later) when Paul says that one of the requirements for an overseer is to be “the husband of one wife/woman.” I think these two passages show that the position of overseer is to be a man and that the man is to be the teacher. He is to be “able to teach” and the woman is to “learn quietly” (1 Tim. 2:11). I don’t think that means a woman can’t talk in church, make an announcement, give a prophetic word, read the bible publically, or pray, but I do think that Paul is saying the exercising authority is not what God desires of a woman in a church.

I think a woman can bring questions and even correction to her husband and I think a woman could bring questions to a male pastor/elder/overseer. I think if a woman in the congregation heard me speak heresy, it is her right and obligation to come to me privately and ask questions about my teaching. I think this is what Pricilla was doing. She was helping a brother out who did not know doctrine the way she did. She wasn’t publically teaching or preaching. She was coming to him privately, being a helpful sister in Christ. This is why she was not disciplined. She did not break any law.

As far as the term “law” goes, I think Paul is simply referring to the Old Testament law; possibly the Pentateuch.

I think the ESV Study Bible has a helpful note on this passage that I agree with: “14:34-35 Since Paul seems to permit wives to pray and prophesy (11:5, 13) as long as they do not dishonor their husbands by the way they dress (11:5), it is difficult to see this as an absolute prohibition (cf. Acts 2:17, 21:8-9). Paul is likely forbidding women to speak up and judge prophecies (this is in line in the immediate context; cf. 1 Cor 14:29) since such an activity would subvert male headship. ‘ Law also says’. Paul is probably thinking of the woman’s creation “from” or “for” the man. (see 11:8-9; Gen. 2:20-24) as well as a general pattern of male leadership among the people of Israel in the OT.
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Cheryl's response and Mike’s rejoinder will be in the next post.

Complementarianism and Reformed Theology...A Link?

2009-07-11T11:15:00.003-04:00

This is an interesting question that someone gave Kevin DeYoung. Personally, I think there is more of a link between Biblical Inerrancy and Complementarianism. I also don't know many Reformed people who do not hold to Biblical Inerrancy. So, I think it is a fair question.

The Power of Words

2009-07-02T09:36:00.000-04:00

Our church has been recently going through the book of James and I am working on a message on James 3:1-12 about the Weightiness of Words. I have found some great resources for this message, but also some great ways to meditate on the importance of our words. Let me encourage you to listen to the messages from the 2008 Desiring God Conference called "The Power of Words and the Wonder of God."

I think these messages could help the husband and wife who are struggling in their communication, the complementarian who is trying to speak to egalitarians, yet not doing it in a humble way, and the parents who are working on their relationship with their teenager. Our words matter. They matter to God and they matter to those around us.

A Mother’s Conversation

2009-06-24T09:00:00.000-04:00

[The GirlTalk blog is one of the best biblical womanhood blogs I know of. This post was both encouraging for parenting as well as application for how we communicate with others outside of the parental realm. It was written by Carolyn Mahaney.]

I’ve been a mother to four teenagers now—three are adults and one is still a teen. I’ve had hundreds (probably thousands) of conversations with my kids. Most of these have been meaningful and memorable talks. But, like all sinful parents and teens, we’ve had difficult conversations as well; and over the years (I hope!) I’ve learned a lot from my mistakes.

The following is a list of seven “reminders” that have served me in those challenging conversations. These are not rules, but guidelines drawn from Scripture that have helped me as I seek to navigate these talks in a God-glorifying way. I’ve included key quotes and verses that have inspired these thoughts.

In prayerful dependence on the Holy Spirit, may I encourage you to…

1) Communicate humbly with your teen.

“Teens will quickly detect Mom’s, Dad’s genuineness by their humility. Let us recall that we are weak people speaking to other weak people, who simply happen to be younger than us.” Rick Horne

“The most helpful thing to remember is that your teenager is more like you than unlike you…. There are very few struggles in the life of my teenager that I don’t recognize in my own heart as well…. Come [to the conversation] as a fellow sinner.” Paul David Tripp

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

2) Postpone talking if you’re angry.

Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. Ephesians 4:29

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:24-26

Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. James 1:19-20

3) Postpone talking if your teen is angry.

“There are times when serious injury is done by urging the claims of religion. Your child is angry. His flushed cheeks and violent motions show the sinful irritation of his mind. Shall the mother now converse with him upon the wickedness of these feelings and God’s displeasure? No! It is unseasonable.” John S.C. Abbott

The beginning of strife is like letting out water, so quit before the quarrel breaks out. Proverbs 17:14

4) Don’t talk too long.

“Guard against long and tedious conversations on religious subjects. The mind of a child cannot be fixed for any great length of time upon one subject without exhaustion. Every word that is uttered, after there are manifestations of weariness, will do more harm than good.” John S.C. Abbott

“Listen, don’t lecture. You can usually say all you need to say in about 2 minutes and 30 seconds before you start repeating yourself.” Kenneth Maresco

When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent. Proverbs 10:19

5) Correct only what you must; overlook what you can.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. John 16:12

Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense. Proverbs 19:11

6) Acknowledge your own sin.

“Even if you are only 10 percent to blame for a given conflict, Jesus’ words from Matthew 7 apply to you as much as if you had been 90 percent to blame. You need to acknowledge 100 percent of your 10 percent. The point of Jesus’ teaching is that the first and most important thing for you to realize in any conflict is how your own blindness and sin contributed to the problem.” Rick Horne

Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. Matthew 7:3-5

7) Don’t let the conversation end until you have encouraged your teen.

But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Hebrews 3:13

Gracious words are like a honeycomb, sweetness to the soul. Proverbs 16:24

A good word makes him glad. Proverbs 12:25

Bruce Ware's New Book

2009-06-11T09:00:00.003-04:00

I recently went through Bruce Ware's new book Big Truths for Young Hearts and it is excellent. I considered writing an endorsement for it, but after reading the Foreword to the book, which is written by Ware's daughters, I decided that there was no greater endorsement for a dad than the endorsement from his children. Bruce Ware's girls have not only heard the theology in this book, but they have seen it lived out in their dad. I pray my daughters would feel the same way in 15 years. Lord help me, a sinner!

A Portion of the Foreword by Bethany Strachan and Rachel Ware:

"This book is very special to us. As Bruce Ware's daughters, we view Big
Truths for Young Hearts not only as a rich resource for children and
adults, but also as a tangible representation of the teaching we were blessed to
faithfully receive from our dad throughout our childhood.

For the past two decades we have lived with a father who loves theology and
loves to teach theology. We both remember him teaching us all six verses of the
hymn "May the Mind of Christ my Savior" by the time we were three years old.
During our annual summer road trips to see family on the West Coast, Dad and Mom
used the time in the care to lead our family in singing worship songs,
memorizing Scripture, and discussing theology. Dad would often begin a
conversation with a question: "So do you think Jesus had to be both God
and man?" or "How can God be good and still allow bad things to happen in
the world?" Not exactly laid-back vacation banter, but we loved those
family conversations. We girls would sit in the backseat of our family
Toyota and rack our brains trying to think of a biblical answer, knowing all the
while that Dad had one. He was passionate about sharing truths with us
that would give us confidence in our faith. This passion came through in
family discussions at dinner, late-night chats in his study, and the
"daddy-daughter dates" on which he often took us. Though we did not fully
realize it then, those conversation were life-changing and heart-shaping.
It was Theology 101 given outside the classroom..."

Care Giving or Parenting?

2009-06-05T09:00:00.000-04:00

James and Janet are a pretty typical American couple. They each work hard and they love their son and daughter. Like most families, they are very busy. Their son, Bobby, is 7 years old and enjoys his elementary school and soccer team. Their daughter, Belle, is 3 years old and enjoys her preschool/day care and pulling everything off a bookshelf when she has the chance!

James and Janet have recently been convicted of an aspect of their parenting though. They realized that they have been so busy, that they have not really been parenting Bobby and Belle as much as just "care giving." They get the children to the places they need to go. They make sure they are clothed and well fed, but they realized that they don't actually know what specific ways they are trying to help their children grow in godly character or what spiritual goals they have for their children. James realized that most of the spiritual training his children are receiving was at church, yet he is convinced that the bible teaches that parents are to be the primary teachers of the to their children and the church should be the icing on the cake.

Many good, Christian parents can fall into a similar situation. I know the temptation from my own parenting. We can get distracted with house projects and other activities and neglect our children. We can even commit to many good things, yet by doing them we are neglecting the spiritual training that is called for in "biblical parenting." I know people who have very young children and yet they barely know the children because they are never around them. The preschool potty trains them, the after school program brings structure and discipline, while the parents meet the physical needs of food, clothes, and a place to sleep. Obviously, this is not the case for all of Christian parents, but I think the questions for us to examine are for all parents.

Are we, as parents, specifically and intentionally parenting?

Do we have spiritual goals and areas where we are seeking to train our children?

Are we aware of our children's temptations and tendencies?

If any of these questions are answered with a fog in your head or a slight hesitation, I would encourage you to have a conversation with your spouse about your parenting. My wife and I have found it profitable to have "parenting objectives" in which we know we are on the same page in the training of our kids. Seeking to be intentional in parenting helps in bringing consistency in our parenting and thus, not exasperating our kids. It is helpful to step back and evaluate. So, am I really parenting my kids or just being a care giver? It is a good question ask.

Pastor's Wife: Who Should I Invest In?

2009-05-28T09:27:00.004-04:00

The pull for a pastor's wife to know where she should spend time is a hard one. There are ladies at church, ladies in the neighborhood, her husband, her children, those serving in similar ministries, those who are younger, those who are older...and the list goes on.

Recently, I was reviewing my notes from my year at the Sovereign Grace Ministries Pastors College. I read through some of the answers that C.J. and Carolyn Mahaney had when we (the Pastors College students and wives) asked questions. One of the ladies asked Carolyn how she decided who to pour into and when. Carolyn said that the way to answer this question begins with your priorities. Your roles as a wife and mother come before your role as a pastor's wife. "The way to serve as a pastor's wife is first to care for the home." She stressed that each season of a woman's life is different so the ability and amount of time to pour into other ladies will vary. The infant/toddler years and the teen years of parenting are the most demanding. She emphasized that the pastor's wife's priority of the home will bear fruit, especially as other ladies see her example.

Carolyn also clarified that every pastor's wife will have different gifts and abilities. The way one lady may be able to serve with ease in many areas should not set the standard for how all ladies are expected to serve in their role as a pastor's wife. Every lady has a different capacity and different gifting.

McCulley on History of Feminism

2009-05-21T09:00:00.000-04:00

At the 2009 Sovereign Grace Ministries Pastor's Conference, Carolyn McCulley spoke to the Pastor's Wives in a seminar called "The Pastor’s Wife and Culture: What Feminism Has Done to Femininity." I just listened to it the other day and thought that it was a worthy "Introduction to Feminism." Download it and listen to it.

For a further look at feminism, McCulley wrote Radical Womanhood: Feminine Faith in a Feminist World.

Mother's Day Inconsistency

2009-05-07T09:00:00.002-04:00

Sunday is Mother’s Day. I love you, Mom!

As I recently was thinking about Mother’s Day, I realized that Mother’s Day must seem very inconsistent for a feminist. Noted feminists (specifically, Linda Hirshman) have said that mothers who stay home with their kids or are even positioned toward their homes are “letting down the team" of woman across America. They feel that a woman’s workforce opportunities are more valuable than the family. Mother’s Day is a day when those who care for their children are honored, yet feminism seeks to diminish the joy of motherhood and value roles outside of mothering as more important than mothering.

What could be more valuable for a woman than caring for her family? Our Lord values motherhood and we should too. The influence that mothers have on future generations in incalculable.

Enjoy your mom this Sunday. Thank her for how she serves your family and teach your children to love their mom. Every day is a good day to honor our mothers!

Show a Little Respect!

2009-05-01T12:15:00.000-04:00

On Wednesday, I had the joy of taking a day off work and hanging out with Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Payton Manning, Dr. J, and Jimmie Johnson. Okay, my definition of "hanging out" may be a little loose. What I mean is that I got to see them at the Quail Hollow Golf Course in Charlotte, NC for a Pro-Am golf tournament. It was a blast watching this professional athletes play.

It was great seeing many of the athletes sign autographs, but it was also interesting to me to see 8 year old boys who were calling grown men by their first names. "Hey, Payton!" "Hey, Tiger!" "Hey, Phil." I heard one little boy yell, "Mr. Mickelson" and it made my heart leap. There was a respect that this little boy showed this man that some of the other little boys had never learned. The way to respect someone is not by having a child treat an adult as a peer, but by having a child treat an adult like an adult.

It is interesting in the very action of a child wanting an autograph, he is saying, "I respect you," but with his words, he has never been taught how to communicate this same affection effectively.

Is it a sin for a child to use a first name when they address an adult? I'm not sure that it always is, but I do think the biblical principle of showing respect for elders is appropriate. 1 Peter 5:5 says, "Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." In the context of this verse it is speaking specifically of pastor/elders, but the idea of younger people respecting older people is a biblical concept. Wisdom is often associated with older age and foolishness with younger age.

I am thirty years old. I know the younger group doesn't want to claim me, but I also feel more like a college kid than a grown man sometimes. I understand the struggle to learn humility in this area. I know it is an area I continually need to cultivate because I am a young pastor that works with older pastors. I need to seek counsel and wisdom and stir gratefulness for these other men in my life.

It seems that young people (including myself) are tempted to think we know more than older people (i.e. pride). We can assume because we can use Twitter, Facebook, and Wii's that we have more wisdom. We are hip. We are "in the know." We are being foolish.

Let's be humble and seek the wisdom, counsel, and input of those who have been on this journey much longer than we have. Let's also seek to show our kids the need to respect others. Let's teach them that their is a difference between an adult and a child and that is okay...in fact it is biblical. Let's love our children enough to teach them to show a little respect...and honor.

Figure Skating Toward Biblical Roles

2009-04-23T09:00:00.001-04:00

[Below is an excerpt from John Ensor's Doing Things Right in the Matters of the Heart. This was a thought provoking illustration of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood for me.]

In the Winter Olympics, figure skating events are the hottest ticket in town. Pairs figure skating has occasionally been the highest rated even among viewers. At its best, it displays the strength and beauty, the power and grace, of true unity. The gold medal is awarded to the couple who has most mastered the skills of male leadership and female support.

He leads her onto the ice and initiates each part of their routine. She receives that leadership and trust in his strength. His raw physical strength is more on display than hers; he does all the lifting, twirling, and catching. She complements his strength with her own--a more diminutive and more attractive strength of beauty, grace, speed, and balance. His focus as the head, or leader, is to magnify her skills. Her focus is on following his lead and signaling her readiness to receive his next move. He takes responsibility for the two of them, and she trusts his leadership and delights in it.

If he makes a mistake, she pays the larger physical price while he pays the larger emotional price. She falls, but he fails! So he has to learn to initiate and risk. She has to help him understand her moves and to endure his learning curve.

They do not fight for equality on the ice; they possess it as a given. Each has a role to play and they are not jostling or fighting about fairness. They are after something far more rewarding. No one yells, "Oppressor!" as he leads her around the arena, lifting her up and catapulting her into a triple spin. No one thinks she is belittled as she takes her lead from him, skating backward to his forward. No one calls for them to be egalitarian: "She should get to throw him into a triple Lutz half the time!" They complement each other in their complementarian approach to becoming one majestic and powerful whole. No one, least of all he, minds that the roses and teddy bears, thrown onto the ice when they have collapsed into each others arms at the end, are for her. It is his joy.

This appears to me to be a visible model of what male leadership and female support are all about. This is what it looks like as it is worked out. It is an art form, not a mandate. It is a disposition, not a set of rules. When it is done well, it is a welcome sight in which both partners are fulfilled in themselves and delighted in the other.

Newborn, iPod, and God

2009-04-01T12:34:00.000-04:00

My wife and I recently had our third daughter. We are adjusting and enjoying being a family of five. After our first child, I did a very poor job of checking in with and encouraging my wife spiritually. I assumed she was spending time with the Lord, but she was so busy getting adjusted to nursing and changing diapers, that she was getting spiritually dry,

In preparation for our second child, we started discussing ways that she could stir her affections for the Lord while being weary from night feedings and the busyness of a newborn (and a toddler...18 months old). She started listening to sermons during the night along with seeking short devotion times during the day and that really seemed to help her.

Now, with our current circumstances, my wife is enjoying listening to sermons on her iPod at night (along with short devotions during the day). She feeds the baby and is fed spiritually. She said she doesn't always get a ton out of the sermons, but enjoys having something teaching her instead of being tempted to grumble in her exhaustion. Recently, see has been enjoying both Joshua Harris and Mark Driscoll sermons. Both of these men preach with passion and humor, which allows my wife to not drift in her sleepiness.

She especially enjoyed Driscoll's Marriage and Women that was done a few weeks ago. I listened to it the other day while running and thought it would be a good "blog recommendation." Enjoy!

Here is another good use for iPods.

Marriage Counseling: It's His Fault

2009-03-26T15:00:00.007-04:00

Sitting across my desk from a married couple can be a joyful experience or a grievous one. Many couples who desire counsel regarding their marriage see the sin of their spouse very clearly, but are oblivious to their own sinful issues...or at least see them as secondary.

My default mode is to go to the guy. I figure that if the husband was doing his job in leading the family and was sacrificially loving his wife, he would have already been dealing with the problem months and years prior. I think if the husband can see God's plan to change his own heart (and attitudes and actions) then the wife will learn to follow this model of biblical change.

Now, I don't believe 100% of the problems in a marriage are the husbands, but I think this is the biblical place to start. I think this is one of the biblical burdens that falls on the guy. Is he "loving his wife as Christ loved the church" (Eph. 5:25)? Is he, "living with his wife in an understanding way" and "honoring her" (1 Peter 3:7)?

Guys, welcome to leadership...the husband gets commended when it is going well and he gets the heat when it is not. A happy, holy wife is a wonderful endeavor for a husband. A husband must learn to keep the pulse of how his wife is doing (spiritually, emotionally, physically) and if it has gotten to the point that they are in my office for marriage counseling and he is pointing the finger at her...he is in need of some biblical adjustment.

[Men, if you are in marriage counseling and you realize you are not romancing your wife very well, here is a good jewelry site to check out! It’s pretty cool because they can even help you custom design jewelry especially for your bride. I know different ladies like different types of jewelry, so this site may be helpful find those diamonds or romantic gifts.]

Learning to Lead

2009-03-18T12:39:00.001-04:00

What happens when Brian starts thinking about pursuing a girl toward marriage and he comes and says, "I think I need to learn how to lead, do you have anything I can read?" By God's grace he is asking the question BEFORE he is in full pursuit of this young lady.

So, what do you give him? One of the best articles on leadership that I have seen is John Piper's "The Marks of a Spiritual Leader." This helpful article speaks of different godly characteristics that a guy should have and be pursuing when thinking about leadership. This article is not just for young guys, but for all men to think through and access themselves when it comes to their family life, devotions, and church leadership. I give it "two thumbs up!"

Boys Becoming Men

2009-03-11T14:17:00.003-04:00

A helpful resource for helping a young man learn how to practically grow in godliness is Al Mohler's "When Does a Boy Become a Man?" I frequently go through this article with college guys who want to prepare for marriage. Mohler gives 13 points that boys need to grow in to become a man. I ask the college guy to tell me what 2 to 3 areas out of the 13 he needs to focus on. It gives me great insight into seeing where he is spiritually and if he is humbly accessing himself. This article has often blessed the young ladies in our church as well because their future husbands are learning how to be responsible and care for them well.

Baby Ali

2009-02-18T16:50:00.003-05:00

My wife and I had our third daughter last Thursday. We are excited and exhausted, but the Lord gives so much grace. I'll start posting again in a few weeks.

What We Value Shows

2009-02-11T11:30:00.002-05:00

A few months ago, I heard David Horner, from Providence Baptist Church in Raleigh, NC give a powerful and insightful illustration. He said that he was looking back at pictures from when his children were younger and noticed a theme. In each of the pictures at least one of the family members in the picture had a North Carolina Tar Heels shirt. He said that picture after picture had someone in the family sporting their favorite college team. Why was UNC so prominent in the pictures? Because the Horner family valued the Tar Heels.

What we value shows up around us...and our children will be watching and imitating us. I think often about what my children see their daddy valuing, loving, and worshipping. Am I more passionate about Tennessee football (which is my favorite college team...though they were horrible this year!) or am I more passionate about seeing those in our neighborhood come to know Jesus as their Savior. Am I more passionate about golf or family time? Am I more passionate about work and answering my cell phone or am I willing to let the phone ring and read to my girls while I'm home? When I am home am I "all home" or is part of my brain still carrying works burdens and stresses? Do my kids see that I love God's word or sports more?

These are all questions I carry and areas I assess. Many times I have failed, but by the kindness and mercy of God, I have also seen fruit of proper passions in my family. It reminds me of the third verse of "Come Thou Fount."

O to grace how great a debtor daily I'm constrained to be! Let thy
goodness, like a fetter, bind my wandering heart to thee. Prone to wander, Lord,
I feel it, prone to leave the God I love; here's my heart, O take and seal it,
seal it for thy courts above.

May God grant us the humility to evaluate our lives according to His standards.

Parents, Teens, and Reasonable Expecations

2009-02-04T13:00:00.000-05:00

In a seminar entitled "Parents, Teens, and Reasonable Expectations" Grant Layman of Covenant Life Church interviewed the Mahaney family (C.J, Carolyn, and kids). This window into a gospel-centered family was envisioning and helpful for my wife and me. The material is a little bit dated (2002), but it is excellent.

Part 1: The Mahaney's: One Family's Experience
Part 2: The Mahaney's: One Family's Experience

The Seminary Dilemma

2009-02-02T09:00:00.000-05:00

[I know this post is a bit off topic from "biblical roles," but I feel that the assessment of marriage and parenting is an important element for a future pastor. Thanks for reading.]

My wife and I got married and two weeks after our wedding we moved to seminary. We enjoyed it and it provided a great context as we took classes together and developed many nuances of our theology as we read to each other and talked through class topics and assignments.

During and after seminary a dilemma often went through my mind. I loved my seminary and the days I was there. I loved and still love many of the professors there, but I saw a missing link in how the individual students were assessed. I don't think my seminary was the only one missing this assessment, but it is the only one I have been around.

I remember sitting in class and getting to know students who I thought "Wow, I'm not sure that guy is called to ministry, his marriage seems like it is a mess and his parenting seems nothing like that of the qualification for an elder." Yet, the guy would graduate and because he had his M.Div degree he would get a job as a pastor at a church. They may think that the seminary assessed the guy and the seminary would assume that the sending church (the one that recommended the guy to go to seminary) assessed the guy, but in fact NO ONE assessed him.

So, here is the dilemma. If a seminary begins to assess guys and say, "You know, I really don't think you are called to ministry" or "Your marriage shows you don't even meet the 1 Timothy 3 qualifications for ministry" then the seminary loses students. If the seminary loses students the seminary loses money. If the seminary loses money, the professors lose jobs. If professors lose the jobs, who will do the assessing?

Well, you can tell it is a bit of a mess...or at least a dilemma. Biblically, the church should do the assessing. The seminary technically should not have to do ALL of the assessing, but the seminary student should be thoroughly assessed before he is in school there. However, how does the cycle stop. Who begins doing the assessing?

I think the answer is that both the churches and the seminaries need to assess and be honestly willing to tell a guy "no." Christ is building his church and he desires pastors who have good marriages and good parenting skills to lead his church. Anything less is a compromise. Anything less does not guard a local church who is seeking to hire a new seminary graduate. So, what will be done and who will do it?

20 Minutes to Change Your Marriage

2009-01-22T09:00:00.000-05:00

I was sitting through a seminar the other night and the speaker, Davis Carman, made a statement that has had me think a lot. He said that there is a crucial 20 minutes of a man's day that can really bless his wife and change his marriage. He went on to explain that if a man would think through these specific times and ask his wife what blessed her during these times, he would be setting a trejectory for a successful marriage. Here are the specific times:

The first 5 minutes when he woke up in the morning

The last 5 minutes before he said goodbye for work

The first 5 minutes when he walked in the door from work

The last 5 minutes before he said good night

Of course, the time a man spends in God's Word and in prayer is the most important part of the day, but I think Mr. Carman is on to something. What if men intentionally greeted their spouse with gratefulness and grace at the beginning of each morning? What if he lavished love on his wife and kids before he left for work in the morning? What if he greeted everyone in the afternoon by seeking to show interest in their day and not just having a self-focus that sought rest more than relationship? Finally, what would a marriage look like if along with the other 15 minutes of wife-focus, a man sought to honor his wife and communicate his affections for her as they were going to bed? I think this couple would be growing in communication and would be joyfully helped. Obviously, every family has different schedules, but the priority of a husband seeking to be intentional toward his wife is primary...and a little 20 minute change could have big implications for God's work in a marriage.

Abortion as Racism

2009-01-15T09:13:00.000-05:00

Abortion is one of those issues that some people think is not that big of a deal and others find it a huge deal. I personally think it is one of the major blind spots of our culture and that it is ridiculous to ever say killing a child is okay.

One of the sad realities that has been gaining traction is the way that the link between abortion and racism is so prominent. I am glad that these connections are finally being linked, but I am sad that the statistics are often overlooked.

Reading the WORLD Magazine issue on the abortion debate was helpful, but even more specifically, Lynn Vincent article, "Black Genocide" was staggering.

[HT: Justin Taylor]

A Response to the "Open Letter"

2009-01-08T09:00:00.001-05:00

When I wrote “A Semi-Pragmatic Less Theological Open Letter to Egalitarians” I figured that I would get a couple responses…maybe three to four. I was a bit surprised when many more people were willing to answer my question. I was (and continue to be) grateful for the interaction with those who have a different view of biblical roles than I do.

Now that the “open letter” is officially closed (since it ended on Dec. 31, 2008), I thought I would give a few thoughts to the responses.

Overall, I’m not sure the letter was that helpful. I think it did bring some clarity to how egalitarians think and it did bring more interaction with egalitarian in my “inbox,” so I am grateful for the friendships I am building, but overall, it seemed to me to be yet another debate in cyberspace that went on and on until everyone got bored with it…and probably moved on to another debate.

Personally, I think the practical questions are important because they show the true groundwork theology that people believe. I find it hard to believe that you can reconcile an egalitarian lifestyle if you are trying to submit to all of Scripture. Many (almost 78 people) disagree with me on this, but my conscience still rests with my reading of the English Bible (with my Greek Bible Works program) to see what the original author intended by what he said.

In writing the “Open Letter,” I also had some surprises. First, I learned why Wayne Grudem and others never write a second open letter. It is because you will never be able to adequately respond to all of the questions, comments, judgments, and genuine interactions that come from the first one. Secondly, I think I hit a nerve with some readers. Many assumptions were made about me, my marriage, my family, and my parenting because of what I wrote and how I asked the questions. I must say that I grew in the sanctification process through the blog post…and I am thankful to the Lord for that. Thirdly, it was interesting to me that many commenters desired more to argue with how and why I asked the question rather than answer the questions. Many did not even answer the questions, but simple argued about answering the questions.

To the egalitarians who commented, I would like to say “thank you.” I am grateful for the many e-mails I’ve received and beginning communication to clarify both of our positions. Let’s continue the conversation in e-mails and phone calls and in more personal ways that comments cannot provide. May God’s truth ring true and this debate and let the heat of the debate refine all of us.

Hip Hop with a Complementarian Flavor

2008-12-17T14:26:00.001-05:00

Shai Linne is one of my favorite Christian rappers. Recently, he has released a song called "Work It Out" which celebrates biblical womanhood. You can listen to a little bit of it on the Girl Talk blog.

Men in the Dog House

2008-12-12T13:32:00.000-05:00

Here is a funny video for you as you begin your weekend...enjoy!

ApParent Privilege

2008-12-10T10:36:00.003-05:00

Steve Wright encouraged youth pastors to reThink youth ministry with his last book. In his latest book, ApParent Privilege, he passes on a Gospel-centered vision of parenting that is often lacking in today's families. I encourage all parents to read this book and benefit from Wright's experience as youth pastor of 20 years and a dad of 14 years.

Obama and Your Momma

2008-12-03T11:00:00.000-05:00

So, what does President-Elect Obama have to do with your momma? I'm sure there are many ways he will effect her, but in a recent article by Al Mohler, Mrs. Obama looks like she may have even more of an effect on the women in our country...and some ladies are not happy about it!

A Missing Link: Ecclesiology and Femininity

2008-11-25T15:00:00.001-05:00

For much of my life, I did not understand the Biblical priority of the local church. The idea of loving a local church was like loving a post office. You appreciated the post office and the services that it provided, but "love" was such a strong word. After some study (both from Scripture and using good books) I realized that my view of the local church was not the same as Christ's emphasis on His church.

Recently, I was thinking about why we don't see femininity very often on television or in movies (or pretty much anywhere). When I say "femininity," I'm referring to a femininity that is joyfully rooted in a woman enjoying the gift of being a woman, yet not seeking to take on the role of a man at the same time. I thought "what's missing?" Well, I think what's missing for many woman, even Christian women in their lack biblical femininity is the absence of being around other godly women.

So, what is the key biblical passage for this thinking. Titus 2:3-5. In these verses of Paul's letter, we see that older women (those who are godly ladies and probably in the same local church) are to be teaching and instructing younger women. These ladies are to pass down how a young woman is to be a wife, a mom, and be positioned toward the home for the purpose of godliness. Along with the home, the local church is the context of teaching this femininity...at least it is supposed to be. I'm thankful for the many woman in my local church who seek to pass down femininity to their daughters as well as to the younger ladies in our church. They are building into woman to help have strong marriages and strong parenting which display the gospel of Jesus Christ.

As we approach Thanksgiving this week. I am thankful for these ladies who exemplify what it means to be a Christian woman. As John Piper says, they are amazingly feminine and have backbones of steal. Piper says that his church is full of them. I'm thankful that my church is too.

Boundaries That Protect Your Marriage

2008-11-19T13:00:00.004-05:00

A couple of weeks ago I had someone request that I write a post about what boundaries my wife and I have set up in our marriage, specifically to protect each other. At first, I just assumed that we were like every other Christian couple in this, but then I thought of the marriages that I have observed of the years and so I thought I would make a list. Please feel free to add to the list and also know that my wife and I do not think we have somehow "arrived" in the battle against sin or fighting temptation. Here are a few thoughts...I pray they are helpful.

1. We will not ride alone in a car with a person of the opposite sex. Okay, yes, I will ride alone with my mom, but you know what I mean. I heard Dr. Daniel Akin say to a bunch of pastors, "You will never have an affair if you are never alone with another woman." I thought that was a pretty good safe-guard. Akin also said that he prayed that the Lord would "Take him out" before he ever did that as well. Which is another interesting thought.

2. We will not counsel someone of the opposite sex behind closed doors

3. I copy my wife on e-mails to women

4. I tell my wife about conversations that I have with women over the phone. I lead a care group for our college ministry, so occasionally a college girl will call to speak with me. I try to not be on the phone long and direct all counseling to my bride.

5. I have a weekly accountability meeting with a friend who is willing to ask me any hard questions. My wife walks with a close friend 2 to 3 days a week, so she also has regular accountability.

6. When watching TV or a movie, my wife will say "keep looking at me" to warn me against an inappropriate image on the screen. My wife will also do this if we are walking at the mall or near any Victoria's Secret. It is so helpful.

7. I get ESPN magazine and I really enjoy a lot of the articles, but I always allow my wife to go through it with a "sharpie" before I look at it. She will draw clothes on ladies and sometimes some pretty funny pictures on the faces of once seductive ads.

8. My wife and I will communicate with each other if we get an uncomfortable feeling about someone of the opposite sex. I remember a college girl who wanted to work in the youth ministry years ago and I just thought there was something odd about her. I could not put my finger on it, but she scared me a bit because she seemed like she was a bit needy for male attention. I told my wife about this and I felt God's grace in talking with her about it. The college girl did not last long in our church and I was suspicious of why she fled so quickly. I don't want to be uncharitable, but I do want to guard my wife, myself, and our marriage.

9. I try to not get on the internet at my home unless someone else in my family is around. I know that temptations are greater when you are in secret. I also talk about my internet use to my wife. I don't want to fall into the downward spiral of pornography. It is a deadly poison.

Please understand that this list is what works for our marriage. I do not want to be simplistic and say that all men everywhere are the same as me...so find what works for your marriage. Be open to conversations about temptation and seek to flee temptation. Our spouses are gifts from God to help us battle temptation...let them help protect the relationship. It will only enhance the gift God has given you...your marriage!

A Cultural Critique: Trapped in Neverland

2008-11-13T12:01:00.001-05:00

Carl Trueman writes an excellent article about the way our current culture idolizes children and the way many refuse to ever grow up.

I know that many of you will not read the entire article, so here are a few parts to give you the general tone of Trueman's thought.

"But it gets more disturbing than simply finding people in their twenties and thirties acting like spoiled children. Parents are becoming increasingly involved as well. With two sons in travel football (that's soccer to any American readers), I have stood on too many touchlines where parents act like frustrated two years olds as the game does not develop as they would like; and, again, as a professor, I have had unpleasant experiences with parents too. Being told by a parent that their child is `young and immature' works for my wife - she teaches at a church nursery, dealing with three year olds - but it wears a bit thin when the problem child is eighteen, nineteen, twenty....thirty.... And that this kind of stuff seems more common in the church than in the secular world is disturbing. It does not inspire much confidence about the future and, if anything, provides anecdotal confirmation to those who see religion in general and Christianity in particular, as a refuge for the emotionally retarded."

When seeking to solve the stated problem Trueman says,

"Second, we need to stop idolizing our children. At twenty seven, I had a wife, a child, a Ph.D. and a monograph from Oxford University Press. I looked for all the world like an adult. Then I got myself into a bit of financial difficulty, to the tune of about two-hundred pounds, a small sum but not when you are at the bottom of the British academic payscale and a one-income family to boot. I phoned my father for help. He read me the riot act about financial irresponsibility, helped me get out of the immediate fix, and told me that he never, ever wanted me to call and tell him I was in such a fix again. He loved me but he did not idolize me; he knew it was time for me to stand on my own two feet. I loved my dad, but he scared the daylights out of me with that talk. Yet, looking back, that was one of the moments which was the making of me: look, son, you're big boy now; look after yourself and don't come crying to me every time you screw up. A sobering, critical moment in the relationship between father and son; but, in my dealings with others, it finds increasingly few parallels. Touch the child, even the one with the beard, the wisdom teeth, and the warm fuzzy memories of the time when New Kids On The Block were all the rage in High School, and you touch the sacred idol; you can expect the parents to come a-calling."

Intentional Manhood 15: Work

2008-11-06T09:00:00.001-05:00

When it comes to colleges, I am a Tennessee Volunteer fan and my wife is a Clemson Tiger fan. We both enjoy college sports and both of our teams are having horrible football seasons this year. Both head coaches have been fired during this season and both of them were given a nice bit of cash as they left their positions. Last night, I realized how much my 4 year old was listening to my conversations with my wife. Here was how our humorous conversation went:

My Daughter: “Daddy, is coaching something only boys do or do girls do it too?”

Me: “There are both men and women who coach.”

My Daughter: “I want to be a coach when I grow up.”

Me: (with a puzzled look) “Why do you want to be a coach when you grow up?”

My Daughter: “So I can get fired and get a lot of money”

You see, my daughter understands that we work in order to get money, but what she fails to understand is that most people don't get a lot of money when they lose their jobs. She also doesn't understand that our work has far greater purposes than simply making money. In order to understand the purpose of work, we must understand where it started.

Working is not just an idea that began with farmers, the industrial revolution, or Donald Trump. In Genesis 2, we see that God created man to work the ground prior to sin coming into the world. Work was not a bad thing, it was purposeful. It's purpose it to glorify God.

Colossians 3:22-4:1 speaks to this and reveals three primary thoughts that a Christian should have when thinking about work.

1. We are to work with integrity in mind--Christians are not just to give superficial service to their employer. We are not to give "eye-service" to attract attention for the purpose of self exaltation. Christians are to have the integrity of heart that points to Christ as the source of good work and points to Christ as one for which good work is done.

2. We are to work with our identity in mind-- Christians are ultimately working for Jesus Christ, not a company. We are citizens of heaven and our identity is most clearly shown in the cross of Jesus Christ. We are sinners in need of a Savior. Thus, we do not worship work, but worship the Lord of the work. We do not neglect work, but work hard as unto the Lord.

Speaking of work, Leland Rykin says, "The dominant work ethic in the Western world today is economically based. It values work as a stepping stone to the acquisition of either goods or prestige. The deficiencies of this work ethic are that it is sometimes insufficient to motivate people to their best work, it induces many people to overwork, it devalues unpaid work, and it ignores more enlightened motivations and rewards for work” (Redeeming the Time: A Christian Approach to Work and Leisure p. 134). Christians must guard against such thoughts of work. We must fight the slow drift of viewing our work the way that those around us may view work. We are not "working for the weekend" or thinking "TGIF...thank God it's Friday." Yes, we can desire rest, for it points us to the Lord of Rest, but we must do our work unto the Lord.

3. We are to work with intentionality in mind--It is so easy to waste time in the work place. YouTube, Facebook, e-mail, widgets, bathroom breaks, water cooler talk, day dreaming, and blogs can all be subtle forms of not doing our job. Yes, we are all prone to wander in our own unique way. Intentionality will help us from this drift and will allow us to use our job location to build friendships with unbelievers, grow in discipline, and have a joy in knowing that we are obeying our calling in the workplace.

Since the vast majority of men in the United States are employed or are seeking employment, intentional manhood must look at being intentional in our workplaces. If we ignore our spiritual lives in the place we spend 40 to 55 hours per week, we are hardly being intentional.

Here are some recommended resources that have served me when thinking about the topic of "work." Please feel free to add more in the comments.

Business For the Glory of God by Wayne Grudem
The Pastor and His Time-- Podcast with Joshua Harris, C.J. Mahaney, and Jeff Purswell. This is for pastors, but anyone would benefit

Intentional Manhood 14: Evangelism

2008-10-30T09:00:00.003-04:00

Last year, I was convicted about the way many Christians (me being one of them) did not seek to reach out to their neighbors on Halloween. I read an article posted by Justin Taylor that spoke about how every day of the year Christians are trying to get into the houses of their neighbors and then how the one day a year that the neighbors are seeking to get into our house, we turn the lights off...OUCH!

Reaching out to others for the purpose of sharing the gospel (evangelism, if you will) is an area that a husband/father can greatly lead his family in. Being intentional in this area can spur a wife and children who are not naturally inclined toward this to embrace the family's mission of taking the gospel to the lost.

Here are some ways that I have observed other men in our church lead their family in evangelism. Feel free to add to the list.

1. Hot Chocolate Giveaway at Halloween--while you are giving candy to the children, you can give hot chocolate to the parents who are walking around with their kids. This is a great way to start up conversations and build friendships. (I've also heard of people grilling hot dogs and giving them away).

2. Prayer Walking--as you go around the neighborhood on a walk with your family, take turns praying for the people that live in the homes that you pass. This models an evangelistic heart to your kids and gives you an outward focus as you look at your neighborhood.

3. Invest and Invite--whether it is having your neighbors over to watch a game or just having them over for dinner, there are many creative ways to befriend those who live on your street.

4. Sports Teams--I know many families that have their children in soccer or other sports as a way to both learn the sport as well as reach out to other families.

5. Praying for Your Waiter-- "Hey, we're getting ready to pray for our food. Is there anything we can pray for you about?" My wife and I have been asking this question on date nights for a few years now and it has been wild to see the different responses we have gotten. My wife does a great job asking the female waiters and I ask the male waiters. Many have been prayed for, many have been invited to our church, and we even had one that was about to go on the mission field so we were able to encourage her.

6. The Testimony of Godly Children--I've heard of many couples who are finally able to talk with their extended family about the gospel because of the character and integrity that their children displayed. Even with unbelieving friends, some will ask why your children seek to obey and this is an open door to explain God's work and gospel-centered parenting.

Men, obviously, you are not the only ones who are to evangelize. All Christians are to joyfully fulfill this commission by the Lord. However, I think that if men caught a vision for sharing the gospel and living out the gospel with their family, we would have neighborhoods where families were converted and see the glorious joy of salvation. Intentional manhood simply serves to produce intentional Christianity in your family.

Intentional Manhood 13: Finances

2008-10-23T15:09:00.009-04:00

The "almighty dollar" has not been looking very mighty the last few weeks in the United States. Many people are struggling with job losses, retirement savings being wiped out, and gas prices that have been record highs. Money has been an issue for most families. Many are reexamining budgets and forecasting where to save and where to spend.

As the leader of a home, a biblical man must not run from the financial news of the economy or ignore the seemingly smaller matters of the family budget. A man who leads his home will be aware of where his family is financially. He will be intentional with how his family uses the money that God gives them. Here are a few ways.

1. He will provide for his family. He will make sure the needs of his wife and kids are taken care of. 1 Timothy 5:8 says, "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." Now, I can't think of anything worse than dying and spending eternity in hell, but I think Paul is trying to make a point that men should definitely make this a priority.

2. He will be aware of the finances. Please understand that there are many wives that are more able and gifted to keep the checkbook and plan out the budget, but in biblical manhood, the man will be aware of his wife's recommendations and will gladly use her giftings. If a husband and wife feel that the wife is better qualified to do the day to day finances, that is great. However, the man, as the leader of the home and should not abdicate his leadership completely. Yes, he should trust his wife, but he is to lead because of the biblical command.

3. He will listen. Husbands have been given wives as help-mates. This means that he should listen to and desire input about the finances. It should be talked about and there should be communication about the finances. A intentional man seeks to be humble and listen as he and his wife make financial decisions. Often the decisions will be made together, but at the end of the day, the man is accountable before God for the decisions that are made.

4. He will be wise. He will seek to get out of unreasonable debt. Credit Card debt brings many families to feel like they are drowning. If a husband wants to care for his wife and help his marriage, the wisdom of staying out of debt will only serve him.

5. He will ask for help. If a husband and wife are not aware of how to properly stick to a budget and how to think through wise financial decisions, the weight of the responsibility to get help is on the man. Yes, the wife can seek help, but the man should humbly ask for help from a pastor, friend, or financial adviser way before his wife even is concerned.

Intentional Manhood 12: Media Intake

2008-10-15T15:07:00.004-04:00

When you hear the term couch potato do you ever think of a lady? I don't. I think of a guy with the remote in one hand and a bag of chips in the other. He is watching the football game or something else on TV to the exclusion of what he should be doing with his time. Now, don't get me wrong, it is not a sin to watch television, but what we watch on television and the amount of time we watch it and what we expose our minds to is important, in fact it is vital.

The idea of being intentional in our media intake in the American culture of the 21st century is often ignored. We have a thousand voices a day speaking to us through the Internet, music, television, movies, and radio talk shows. Each of these voices wants to impress on us a way of thinking...a worldview. Joshua Harris says, "Today's media, especially television, seeks to define reality for us. It wants to tell us how to think about sex, about marriage, about our desires, about sin. The danger of not bringing God's standards to bear in what you watch isn't only that you might see a naked body, but that the values of a sinful world will shape what you're living for" (Sex Isn't the Problem, Lust Is, p. 117). As men, we then have to ask...how is our media intake affecting us? Here are some questions to ask.

1. Am I more zealous for God, my marriage, my parenting, and my responsibilities before or after I watch television?

2. Do I watch television, surf the net, play video games or participate in other media-driven activities more than my spouse would desire?

3. Is the majority of my conversation with my spouse consisting of media related topics? Are there other topics being avoided because of excessive talk about movies or television shows?

4. Do my kids see a father who is discerning about what he watches and what he allows his family to take in?

5. Am I passively watching shows or intentional to turn away from bad commercials and messages that I do not desire in my house? Do I keep the remote close by to make sure ungodly messages are not entertained in my home?

6. Do my media habits try to get to the edge of what I think is permissible or do they try to stay far from that edge?

7. Am I willing to have an open and honest conversation about this with my spouse where I feel that the Holy Spirit is calling me to change?

One last consideration for men when it comes to media intake...and this is actually the most important. Does your media intake glorify God? Can you say that Ephesians 5:3 is the verse describing your media diet ("But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.")? If you are like me, this verse brings conviction and frustration. Conviction that I need to prayerfully evaluate my media intake and frustration in thinking, "well, can I watch anything?" Actually, yes, we can. The book, Worldliness: Resisting the Seduction of a Fallen World has been a great help to me recently. I'd recommend you read chapter two entitled, "God, My Heart, and Media."

Please remember that in evaluating your media intake, you can only resist this world through the grace of God. "Only through the power of the cross of Christ can we successfully resist the seduction of the fallen world...And the cross is the attraction that draws our hearts away from the empty and deadly pleasures of worldliness." (Mahaney, Worldliness, p. 34).

I leave you with two final quotes that have been helpful.

Richard Baxter: "Keep as far as you can from those temptations that feed and strengthen the sins which you would overcome. Lay siege to your sins, and starve them out, by keeping away the food and fuel which is their maintenance and life."

Dietrich Bonhoeffer: "At this moment[giving into lust and seduction] God...loses all reality...Satan does not fill us with hatred of God, but with forgetfulness of God."

Let's not forget about God in our media intake, but let's glorify God by being intentional.

Intentional Manhood 11: Exercise

2008-10-08T15:07:00.006-04:00

Some of us love it, some of us hate it, and some of us love to hate it. Exercise. It conjures up thoughts of hard work, sweat, pain, discipline, and exhaustion for some. It may conjure up thoughts of sports, leisure, friendships, competition, and enjoyment for others. Regardless of our thoughts on exercise, it seems apparent that if we are physically able, we should all do it.

John Piper says, "The Bible has little to say about physical exercise, not because it's not important for modern sedentary people, but mainly because, in the biblical world of walking and farming and manual labor, the lack of physical exercise was not a problem. The call today is spiritual wisdom based on biblical principles and contemporary medical knowledge."

Piper continues, "The biblical principles would include the following: Our bodies belong to Christ and we are meant to glorify him (1 Cor. 6:19-20); laziness is wrong and self-destructive (Prov. 21:25); Christians should be free from any enslaving habits (1 Cor 6:12); hard work is a virtue and brings reward (1 Tim. 2:6); advance usually comes through affliction (Acts 14:22); and all Christ-exalting efforts to be healthy flow from faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ (Gal. 6:14). 'No pain, no gain' is an idea that could be documented from all over the Bible, especially the sacrifice of Christ" (Piper, When I Don't Desire God, p. 202).

Piper then explains that there is a mental and emotional benefit to exercising as promoted by many medical doctors and that this benefit may allow us to have minds that can assist in seeing the glory of God. He states that his final desire in even discussing exercise is that "The right use of your body and your mind may enable you to see so much of God that you would sacrifice your life for Christ."

You may be wondering how this fits with the "Intentional Manhood" series of posts. It is my observation that many men, especially older men have concerned wives. The wives are concerned about their husband's health and would be so served if their husband would take exercise and physical health seriously. I think we can glorify God and serve our wives by taking care of our bodies. Exercise is not only for men, but I often hear of ladies going to the gym, taking walks, or taking a swimming class, when men read the paper and watch television. Exercise takes discipline and intentionality, so for men, it takes intentional manhood.

[recommended sermon: Don't Waste Your Sports by C. J. Mahaney]

Intentional Manhood 10: Church

2008-10-01T15:06:00.003-04:00

It's been interesting watching NFL football in the opening weeks of the season. I don't know if I am just more aware of injuries this year or if there are actually more of them. The influence of the Patriots not having Tom Brady has shown to be huge. Randy Moss went from a prime player and play maker to more of an average receiver because he has a different arm throwing to him. In football, one man effects another man. One man can actually effect an entire team. If one man has such an effect, what would a team look like if multiple men where absent from the team on Sunday?

While the local church has a bit of a different Sunday meeting than a football team (and I would say a more important one) the fact that many men are absent on Sunday is prevalent in congregations across the United States.

While growing up, I remember thinking that Christianity must be a bit sissy because of the lack of godly males that I saw in my local church. It seemed that most of the men had more passion for their work or hobbies than they had for the local church. I thought you went on Sundays because you had to and then lived the rest of your life until the following Sunday. The idea of having a loyalty and love for the local church was like saying you were loyal to and loved the local gas station. To me, it made no sense.

Jesus, however, has a great love for the church and says that He will build His church(Matt. 16:18). That's a promise. Jesus also desires to build His church by giving gifted men to the local church (Eph. 4:11). If Jesus loves His church and gave Himself up for His church (Eph. 5:25), wouldn't you think that we should have a love and affection for our local church?

John Stott summarizes it well when he says, "If the church is central to God's purposes, as seen in both history and the gospel, it must surely also be central to our lives. How can we take lightly what God takes so seriously? How dare we push to the circumference what God has placed at the center?"

As men, we must build this passion for the local church in our families and we must carry it out into the community of faith that we worship alongside each week. The church is not a building, but a group of people and we, men, must be part of those people worshiping the Lord. We must show our kids that we love the local church and we must show our local university students that a campus club is not the same thing as a church. A robust doctrine of the church is essential for a man to grow biblically. We must love what Christ loves and Christ loves the church.

[If this whole idea is new to you, I encourage you to get Stop Dating the Church by Joshua Harris. It is an easy read and very well written.}

Intentional Manhood 9: Family Worship

2008-09-24T15:06:00.002-04:00

It is often easy for a husband/father to lead his family to watch a movie or go out to dinner. A dad does not struggle turning on the game on Saturday to cheer for his team while his kids cheer on with him. However, an understanding that a father must care for and lead his family spiritually is dropped in many homes. Intentional manhood means leading our family to fulfill their purpose: to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.

Family Worship is a tool that men can use to point their families to the Lord and show them the greatness and supremacy of the Lord.

Below is a post that I did a few months ago that specifically speaks to family worship.

Family Worship is the idea of a dad leading his family in daily or weekly concentrated focus on the Lord. It often includes singing, prayer, and Scripture reading. I had never heard of it until a few years ago, but it is a concept that has been rolling for years. I've enjoyed seeing the grace that God has poured out on my own family through doing this and I know He desires to pour that same grace on other families. Here are some great quotes to tell you more about family worship and the role of parents in leading their children spiritually. They stir my spirit to make me want to be a better dad.

-John Newton (1725-1807) “I think, with you, that it is very expedient and proper that reading a portion of the word of God should be ordinarily a part of our family worship; so likewise to sing a hymn or psalm, or part of one, at discretion; provided there are some people in the family who have enough of a musical ear and voice to conduct the singing in a tolerable manner: otherwise, perhaps, it may be better omitted… If you read and sing, as well as pray, care should be taken that the combined services do not run into an inconvenient length.”

-Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758) “Every Christian family ought to be as it were a little church, consecrated to Christ, and wholly influenced and governed by his rules. And family education and order are some of the chief means of grace. If these fail, all other means are likely to prove ineffectual. If these are duly maintained, all the means of grace will be likely to prosper and be successful.”

-Richard Baxter (1615-1691) “We must have a special eye upon families, to see that they are well ordered. The welfare and glory of both the Church and the State, depend much on family government and duty. If we suffer the neglect of this, we shall undo all. Therefore, if you desire reformation, do all you can to promote family religion.”

-Matthew Henry (1662-1714) “Masters of families, who preside in the other affairs of the house, must go before their households in the things of God. They must be as prophets, priests, and kings in their own families; and as such they must keep up family-doctrine, family-worship, and family-discipline: then is there a church in the house, and this is the family religion I am persuading you to… You must read the scriptures to your families, in a solemn manner, requiring their attendance on your reading, and their attention to it: and inquiring sometimes whether they understand what you read.”

-John Knox (1510-1572) “Brethren, you are ordained of God to rule your own houses in his true fear, and according to his word. Within your houses, I say, in some cases, you are bishops and kings; your wife, children, servants, and family are your bishopric and charge… Of you it shall be required how carefully and diligently you have instructed them in God’s true knowledge, how you have studied to plant virtue in them, and [to] repress vice. And therefore I say, you must make them partakers in reading, exhorting, and in making common prayers, which I would in every house were used once a day at least.”

-Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892) “First, let us begin by emphatically declaring it is parents (fathers in particular) and not the church who are given the primary responsibility for calling the next generation to hope in God. The church serves a supplementary role, reinforcing the biblical nurture that is occurring in the home…

[HT: Steve Wright]

Intentional Manhood 8: Social Justice

2008-09-18T15:05:00.002-04:00

When looking at history it is often easy to say, "Wow, why did they not see that?" We think of Nazi Germany and don't understand how people could murder others in the name of obeying the governmental authority. Each culture has its blind spots and some of these blind spots are the difference between life and death.

In a similar way, I think that future generations will look at the early 21st century and say, "Wow, why did they not see that?" The "that" they will be speaking of is abortion. Most in the medical field no longer argue that a "fetus" is not a baby. Most agree that it is. The argument is whether that child's rights are more important than the mom's rights. Is the right to life more important than the right to choose, or not?

Biblically, it is clear that murdering is wrong. Biblically, it is also clear that life is created by God. So, why would we allow murder to happen everyday and say and do nothing about it. As a Christian man, it seems like a pretty big blind spot to me.

So what must we do? We must speak out for the unborn with our voices, our wallets, and our votes. We must not leave this to the "other guy." We must not think that this is an issue that only women should care about. An intentional man sees a civic duty to speak against evil and not assume others are going to do it. Once again, we have to fight against the passive inclinations to not worry about it. God desires his children to care about the lives of others.

Social Justice is not the primary call to the Christian, the gospel is, but the outworking of the gospel will propel us to issues like this. To claim a love for the Lord and a love for others, yet remain silent in social issues seems utterly sinful. Men, we must stop ignoring the issue of abortion and other social issues that plague our society and live our lives defined by Scripture.

Lord, give us eyes to see and wills to act.

[Here is a related post by Joshua Harris]

Intentional Manhood 7: Devotion Time

2008-09-10T15:04:00.004-04:00

Though this is #7 in this series of posts, it is probably #1 in the priority of being intentional as a man. If a guy does not have a vibrant relationship with the Lord in private, it will show in public and in the home.

I've counseled numerous guys who are struggling with lust or laziness or pride and as I begin asking them questions about their devotion time, I find out that it has diminished or has lacked for a long period of time. The greatest way to fight for joy, renew your mind, and live out what biblical manhood is intended to be is by being a man of the Word. Knowing your Bible and applying it to life is the primary tool to be a godly man. Donald Whitney says, "No spiritual discipline is more important than the intake of God's Word" (Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life, p.28). And it is not just about knowing your Bible, it is about knowing the God of the Bible. 2 Corinthians 3:18 says, "And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another..." This shows us that the way we change is by seeing the God of the Bible for who he really is. We change by beholding him. We behold Him by reading, meditating on, and memorizing His Word.

I can tell a distinct difference in my attitude, the strength of my fight against temptation, and my overall care for others if I spend time in God's Word in the morning or if I don't. My mind is renewed (Romans 12:2) and my joy is refreshed by surveying the wonderous cross through the written Word. My perpective on life becomes less about me and more about God's view on the world.

Much like prayer, our intake and meditation on God's word should be regular. We should set regular times to interact with God's Word and be changed by it. If you are like me and are weary in the mornings, it may be helpful to begin your devotion time reading a different book (to get the engine of your brain going) and then pick up your Bible. These are some books that I have found helpful in reading just a page or two to get my heart and mind primed.

When I Don't Desire God by John Piper
The Gospel Primer by Milton Vincent
Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem
God is the Gospel by John Piper
What Jesus Demands of the World by John Piper
The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul
The Enemy Within by Kris Lundgaard
Quest for More by Paul David Tripp

I also encourage you to read chapters 2 and 3 of Donald Whitney's Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life. They are excellent in giving you a renewed passion for God's Word.

Obviously, men are not the only ones who need God's Word, but it seems that if men would lead in being passionate about God's Word, families and churches would be dramatically strengthened. The spiritual depth of the home starts with the husband/father. If we don't do it, we are putting our wives in a hard position and we diminish the glorious gospel to our children. There is no greater gift that you can give your wife and children than a love for God's Word and you leading by example.

Intentional Manhood 6: Prayer Time

2008-09-03T15:03:00.002-04:00

Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If this is the only way I pray, then shallow is my every day.

We are all busy, but are we too busy to speak with the Creator of our very being and the One who allows each breath that we take. Many men think that prayer is an optional part of the Christian life, but rather, it is the source of the Christian life. Communion with God is primary for a man to lead his wife and children well and to walk humbly with his God.

I recommend men praying in a devotional time in the morning. This starts the day off with a focus on God rather than on self. We can bring our thoughts and concerns before him, but we can also have our perspective on life change as we focus on Christ's substitutionary death on our behalf. My prayers and my review of the Gospel through my prayers help me fight for joy in the Lord each morning. It is a way to "speak the gospel to yourself" instead of listening to yourself (borrowed from Jerry Bridges).

Our prayer life is not only to be by ourselves. Praying with your spouse can be a wonderful window in hearing your wife's conversation with God. My wife and I are still growing in prioritizing this, but as we have grown in this area, it has been a joy to cast our burdens before Him and also hear what her primary concerns are in life. I have learned so much about the priority and purpose of prayer from a good friend, Philip, who is from India. Apparently, the Indian Christians take prayer to a whole new level and it also takes marriage to a whole new level. There is an added intimacy with God and with each other when couples pray together.

Lastly, we should pray with our children. The way we can teach our children to pray is by allowing them to hear us pray. I'll never forget the time I heard my brother-in-law pray the same phrase that my father-in-law often prays as we prayed before a meal one Christmas afternoon. We learn from those we are around. Our children hear us and they learn how to talk to God by our prayers. We can teach them to pray spontaneously as they see us praying spontaneously...in the car, at our house, before meals, before bed, when we wake up, as we hear bad news, as we evangelize, and in preparation for church.

Men, let me encourage you to pray. Lead your family by praying...pray for them and with them.

Intentional Manhood 5: Planning

2008-08-27T15:02:00.002-04:00

Your heart sinks when you find out that you scheduled a meeting at the same time as your kid's soccer game...again. You can cancel the meeting, but it upsets you that you did it again. If you just looked over your calendar prior to the week, these kind of issues would happen less frequently.

One major hurdle for boys becoming men is in learning to plan. One of the hardest things to teach many college males is that they now need to keep a calendar and they are no longer going to be "spoon fed" life. If a guy is ever going to get approval from a dad in my church to pursue his daughter, he is going to learn how to plan (the dating/courtship model is a whole different conversation). This is pretty good incentive...and I think the Lord actually uses it to help our boys grow up (though the main motivation needs to be a heart that desires to glorify God).

While playing baseball my freshman year in college, I quickly realized that if I wanted to make good grades, do well in my sport, grow spiritually (I was a new believer), and have any kind of social life, I needed to learn to plan. I needed to study at certain times and rest at certain times. At first I thought a calendar/planner would restrict me, but I ended up learning that it freed me to really enjoy my play because I was not worried about "dropping the ball" in other areas of life.

Here are two ways that scheduling and planning can help men:

1. Evaluation: By planning, you will be able to evaluate how you are doing in your major life roles. This always begin with your spiritual life. Married men must then consider how they are doing in their marriage and parenting. These men will be able to step out of the normal routine of life and see what kind of time you are spending with your wife and kids. Single guys can evaluate their work, school, and leisure time. The leisure time often seems like big hurdle for many singles.

We often need a reality check as we drift through life because we perceive that we are doing better in areas than we really are. Taking specific time out of the week for evaluation can help.

2. Application: We have all had good intentions about blessing a friend or helping our children and then have forgotten to carry it out. Many times we do not carry it out because we forget to plan for it. Planning leads to applying what we have planned. Evaluation without application will lead to frustration. So, seek to apply what you are learning from your evaluation.

In giving this advice, I stand on the shoulders of many others and I am thankful to learn from many older, wiser men. I have heard some say that taking 30 minutes at the beginning of the week to evaluate your week can help you tremendously. I now do this with my work calendar and my wife and I go over our home calendar each week. I was surprised at how much this helped us be on the same page and benefited our communication. It takes intentionality and by God's grace, it can be done.

Intentional Manhood 4: Romance

2008-08-19T13:00:00.000-04:00

What is romantic to your wife? Is it a relaxing evening talking on the couch or is it surprise tickets to a football game? Maybe neither of these. Maybe both. Every wife is different and every husband should be intentional in getting to know his bride. He should seek to study and know her. He should learn her preferences and her delights.

After reading Sex, Romance, and the Glory of God, I started a "Kristin 101" file on my Pocket PC. Now, many will find that completely unromantic, but its purpose is to write down different ideas/ways to romance Kristin. My wife says that this is her favorite book I have ever read (outside the bible...of course). It taught me much about being the godly husband that my wife deserves...or at least attempting to be that kind of husband.

Mahaney gives some categories which he uses to study his wife that I used in my "101" file. I would encourage every man to make either a mental list or a written list of what your wife likes. On page 33, Mahaney asks, "Do you know how to surprise and delight your wife in specific ways in each of the following categories?

sex
clothing size, styles, and stores
jewelry
health
exercise
books and magazines
movies
the arts
sports
food
music
entertainment
places to visit
intellectual interests
hobbies
vacations/getaways

Another part of romancing and knowing your wife is having an understanding how she is doing on an emotional level. Mahaney makes another list asking, "Do you know how your wife is faring in each of these areas?

theological knowledge
practice of the spiritual disciplines
growth in godliness
spiritual gifts that can be used to serve others
involvement in the local church
relationship with children
relationship with parents
relationship with in-laws
relationship with friends
personal retreats
fears
hopes
dreams
disappointments
temptations

If there is a fog rising in your brain as you read these lists, I encourage you to begin now with studying your wife. You both will be glad you did.

Intentional Manhood 3: Friendships and Fellowship

2008-08-12T12:30:00.000-04:00

I know it is said that a dog is man's best friend. I would beg to differ. I believe if a man is married, his best friend is to be his wife. If he is single, his best friend should be someone who will speak truth to him and encourage him...and I don't think Ruffles will do that. (If you are a single guy and your dog's name is Ruffles, you need to get some dog-naming help from a friend anyway).

Both married and single men need other men to have biblical fellowship and accountability. Though the marriage relationship is primary, a friendship with a guy ("accountability partner" if you will) is very important. This is someone who a guy can be transparent with and who he will receive correction from. This is a guy who will exhort and encourage. This is the guy who will say "You seem to be spending too much time at work" or "It seems like you are being passive in that decision." It is a friend who will speak the truth of God's Word into your life.

Men often fall into the two pitfalls when it comes to friendships. Either they are a "mile wide and an inch deep" speaking merely of sports, politics, work, family, and more sports or men may fall into the "Lone Ranger" idea. The "I am man...I need no other" mentality. Both of these are tragic and probably more of an evidence of pride than true masculinity.

We need to be intentional in fellowship. Fellowship is not getting together to watch the Bears game (though that is always fun...especially if they win). "Fellowship is participating together in life and truth made possible by the Holy Spirit through our union with Christ. Fellowship is sharing something in common on the deepest possible level of human relationship--our experience of God himself...Fellowship with others begins with honest, open, obedient relationships with God rooted in the truth of His Word. How we share that relationship with others--how we wrestle with understanding truth and struggle to apply it to our lives--is the essence of fellowship" (Why Small Groups p. 19).

Men, we know we need this, but we need to intentionally pursue it. Will you?

[I did a post in the past on accountability that may be helpful...and another one on self-assessment]

Intentional Manhood 2: Date Nights

2008-08-06T10:00:00.002-04:00

John and Kim have had a busy few months. They have three children (7, 5, and 3), he works 50-60 hours per week, she works a part-time job, as well as takes the two oldest to school and cares for the youngest. Finances are okay, but with gas prices going up, they are starting to feel a little bit of the crunch. Kim feels that she does not have much time to spend with her husband and John feels that he and Kim really need to talk about how their children are doing. So, how might intentional manhood help in the busyness of life? Let me suggest a date night.

A date night is an intentional time away from the children when a husband and wife can communicate with each other and enjoy time together. The primary relationship in a family is the one between husband and wife. A husband and wife need specific time set aside to focus on that relationship. Husbands can express their God-given leadership in the marriage by thinking through how to romance their spouse as well as specific topics to discuss on the date night. A husband can come up with specific questions to ask his wife to get the conversation going (Sweetie, what are you most excited about when thinking of our upcoming vacation?) or there can be a confession of sin (Honey, I was impatient with you this morning when I was running late for work. I interrupted the story you were telling me because I was thinking about myself more than thinking about you, will you please forgive me?). Discussion of partental concerns may also be beneficial to talk through in this undistracted time, though this should probably not be the subject every date night because you are to be enjoying each other.

One question that I think every husband should ask his wife on a date night is: "What areas do you feel I can improve in as a husband and father?" After asking this question I encourage the men to keep your mouth shut and open your ears. What your wife will express could revolutionize your marriage.

Men, let me encourage you to practically apply this and seek to plan a date night in the next couple of weeks. If you do not get this on your calendar, it will probably not happen. Seek to know and study your wife. Plan a date with your bride and enjoy seeing God work to strengthen your marriage for His glory.

Intentional Manhood 1: Purposeful Pride Killing

2008-07-30T09:30:00.000-04:00

Many marriage counseling sessions end up with the counselor/pastor talking to the man about passivity and his consistent lack of leadership in the marriage. This is not always the case, but many times it is. For the next several months, I am going to be doing some posts called "Intentional Manhood." These posts are intended to help sharpen and encourage guys to a biblical view of manhood and application of what we often know in our heads, but lack in our daily lives.

Purposeful Pride Killing:

Have you ever been in a situation when you were getting credit for something you did not do? Did you say anything about it? Did you bring correction and clarity to make sure that the appropriate people received the credit? Do you have "purposeful pride killing" as a category in your mind.

There are many moments throughout this week and month that you will be given the opportunity to kill pride in your life. You will sin against your children or spouse and you will need to humble yourself and ask forgiveness. You will mess up at work and need to take the blame for your failure or oversight. You will lust and need to humbly confess your sin to your accountability partner.

Life is full of purposeful pride killing moments.

A few weeks ago, I sent an e-mail to someone and realized that in the e-mail I was trying to impress the individual with my "knowledge and expertise." This was pride and as soon as I hit "send" I was convicted. (I know...I should have been convicted sooner, but I am a little slow). As I sat at my computer and continued to work, I wrestled with excusing my pride and seeking to suppress the conviction. Finally, after about and hour, I wrote another e-mail to the person and confessed my desire to impress them and asked them to forgive me. They forgave me and I was thankful for the mercy and grace of God to grant me forgiveness.

Biblical manhood (and actually womanhood too) is full of opportunities where we can humble ourselves and receive the grace of God shown to us through the cross of Christ. When we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sin (1 John 1:9) and we are given grace in our humility (James 4:8). So, what are we waiting for? Where is there an area of "purposeful pride killing" that needs to take place in your life?

A Semi-Pragmatic, Less Theological Open Letter to Egalitarians

2008-07-22T15:35:00.000-04:00

Many of you have heard of Wayne Grudem's "Open Letter to Egalitarians" and recently there has been talk about this letter on this blog. As I have been reading John Ensor's Doing Things Right in the Matters of the Heart, I thought of some pragmatic questions that I would like to ask my egalitarian friends. Now, this is an open letter, but its "openness" is going to end December 31, 2008...why?, because I don't want to be responding to comments on this post for years to come. I think that is both fair to my responders and to me.

Dearest Egalitarian,

I know that the theological debate is more important than the practical debate in the arguments of the complementarianism vs. egalitarianism, but I just have some questions. So feel free to answer them. Some of the questions are just curiosities for me and others would be helpful for complementarians to see your preferences. Please know that in asking these questions, I am not seeking to be sarcastic toward you or your position in the gender debate. I am truly curious and I say that with the utmost respect for you as fellow image bearers of God.

1. If the Titanic accident were to happen again, would you desire 50% of the seats on the life boats to be left for men?

2. If there is a robber who just broke into your house and you are married with children, would you want the man to go downstairs or the woman or would this be done depending on who had done it last time?

3. Would an egalitarian woman be offended at a man holding the door for her?

4. Do egalitarian parents allow their boys to play rough with the girls just like the boys play rough with other boys?

5. Do egalitarian parents train their boys that it is okay for them to be "stay at home dads?" If so, does a lot of domestic training happen for these boys?

6. Do you feel that women boxers should be allowed to fight in the ring with men?

7. Do egalitarian women desire to be protected by their guy (boyfriend, husband, father, etc.) or would they prefer to protect themselves?

8. Does an egalitarian female "pastor" get a maternity leave from her preaching responsibilities?

9. Does and egalitarian female "pastor" counsel men about pornography?

10. Do egalitarian pastoral staffs go on pastoral retreats together? If so, how does that work with having guys and girls together? Do the spouses feel strange about this?

If other complementarians have questions to add to this "open letter" feel free. Egalitarians, if you have some pragmatic/practical questions for complementarians, please feel free to ask. I desire for this conversation to be a humble one and done unto the Lord.

God bless,

mike seaver

Shel Silverstein on Unbiblical Manhood

2008-07-17T11:08:00.000-04:00

I've been enjoying John Ensor's Doing Things Right in the Matters of the Heart the last few days and I thought that his quotation of Shel Silverstein's "My Rules" poem was funny as well as insightful for how a man should NOT pursue manhood.

"My Rules"

If you want to marry me, here's what you'll have to do:

You must learn how to make a perfect chicken-dumpling stew.

And you must sew my holey socks,

And soothe my troubled mind,

And develop the knack for scratching my back,

And keep my shoes spotlessly shined.

And while I rest you must rake up the leaves,

And when it is hailing and snowing

You must shovel the walk...and be still when I talk.

Any--hey--where are you going?

John Ensor on Gender Issues

2008-07-15T11:45:00.002-04:00

Below is an excerpt from John Ensor's Doing Things Right In the Matters of the Heart (pages 58-59). I found it intriguing, bold, and I wanted to pass it on to my readers.

The Heart Lacks Confidence

The androgynous, asexual, gender-bending, role-reversing view of modern egalitarianism is so unattractive to me that I cannot help but think most of us publicly embrace it simply because it saves time and bother when we are in public. It is all so much "bar talk." Bar talk is my reference for the way in which people will agree with someone's forceful political opinion when sitting in a pub. No matter how asinine it might be, those at the bar will say, "Yep, You got that right, Bud." They agree because they are there to drink, not think. Privately they think something else, but why bother?

So it is with the inverted role expectations of so much of modernity. I wonder how many true converts there are. I must admit, though, that it has rendered men and women unsure of what it means to be a man or a woman, and it has made men and women insecure about how to relate to each other.

Women lack confidence in their desire to be a wife and mother. It is acceptable as a side dish, but should it be the main dish, something must be wrong with them. Men who want to do the right thing toward women are now unsure if it is okay even to open a car door for them.

Since most American cares now do not have a keyhole on the passenger side door, men are being told in now uncertain terms that chivalrous door-opening is out of style. In our sterile environment, a man merely pushes the key fob and the woman opens her own door. These small assaults on the cultural cues that help define manhood and womanhood have produced paralysis. Men are afraid to do the wrong thing when they should be confident in knowing and doing the right things.

Mahaney: The Gospel and Deliberate Complementarian Pastors

2008-07-08T14:30:00.000-04:00

C.J. Mahaney did an excellent post on what it means to be a complementarian pastor and what the implications are on the gospel in regards to the gender debate. I encourage all pastors to seriously seek to not only read this article, but apply it. It could transform your marriage and your church.

Egalitarianism, Complementarianism, Grudem's "Open Letter," and Humility

2008-07-02T12:26:00.002-04:00

Lately, I've been in an e-mail correspondence with Suzanne McCarthy, an egalitarian linguist who desires much of the Open Letter to Egalitarians by Wayne Grudem to be open for discussion again. I'm not exactly sure how many years an "Open Letter" is to be "open" but McCarthy feels that it has still not sufficiently been dealt with. I am a complementarian and would probably agree with Dr. Grudem on 99% of what he says, however, I do think if questions are asked, they should be answered. So here is the link to McCarthy's post. Though I disagree with McCarthy on much about the gender debate, I respect her willingness to humbly correspond with me.

In looking at her post, McCarthy may have answered some questions that Grudem posed and may have evidence that opposes some to Grudem's arguments about specific examples of Greek words used by ancient sources, but I don't think these answers ultimately define what the Scriptures teach about leadership, submission, and biblical roles. The roles are set out at the beginning of time and shown in the beginning of Genesis...before the fall. Ancient writings that sometimes translate a word differently from that of the normal Biblical translation can never change the fact that if we let Scripture interpret Scripture, there is one main teaching about biblical roles. Husbands are called to lovingly and graciously lead and wives are to intelligently and humbly submit. This kind of authority is not abusive, abrasive, or demeaning. It is a call for a husband to have a servant-heart which cares more about his wife than he does about myself.

I do want to remind everyone that in looking at the issues of Complementarianism and Egalitarianism, we do not do theology in a box. Try as we may, we have life experiences that we bring with us when we read the Scriptures. The goal for all of us is the let the Scriptures define our beliefs and not let our life experiences define what Scriptures are saying. I feel that the complementarian position best does this. McCarthy would disagree with me. Now, should I treat McCarthy as a less than human person type of wacko...of course not. She appears to be a sister in Christ and is a fellow "image bearer." Let's let humility win the day and allow the gender debate to continue...humbly.

I'm sure there will be some comments on this post, so let me encourage at the outset that I desire no one to bash Grudem or McCarthy, but you are welcome to give your opinion and thoughts humbly.

The Greatest Game Ever Played

2008-06-25T12:25:00.000-04:00

Recently, someone recommended that I read Mark Frost's The Greatest Game Ever Played. The summary of the book says, "Interweaving the personal stories of American golfer Francis Ouimet and British champion Harry Vardon, this compelling narrative chronicles the epic drama of their legendary confrontation at the 1913 U.S. Open, a competition that marked the rise of the sport of modern golf." This may sound fascinating the golf fan, but completely boring to those guys who care nothing about golf. I both enjoy golf and reading, so this was a great book, not just for the excellent writing of Mark Frost, but because I could see spiritual application to biblical manhood as I read the book.

Although it never speaks of the spiritual lives of Harry Vardon or Francis Ouimet (and I don't think either where believers), one can see where God's common grace of character qualities allowed them to succeed in golf and in life. Here are some of the qualities that encouraged and impressed me about these men.

1. Suffering--After Harry Vardon battled illness, he did not feel sorry for himself, but battled back to compete. In living a Christian life, we must not let suffering bowl us over, but we must see that God has greater purposes in our suffering. Biblical men engage suffering in a way that focuses on the greatness of God and not the hardship of the suffering

2. Loyalty--Francis Ouimet is basically a "no body" when it comes to golfing in the US Open. No one expects him to win, but as he begins to do well in the rounds someone encourages him to get a better caddie. Francis sticks with his eight year old caddied, Eddie, and shows a loyalty that is unusual for sports. In biblical manhood calls for men to be loyal...not only to their wife and children, but also to other men around them. A godly man thinks about how his decisions will effect others and does not have his on desires are priority, but desires to serve his neighbor.

3. Focus--It is clear that the game of golf is not merely physical, but it is also mental. Part of mental strength in golf is to keep a peaceful focus one shot at a time. It was amazing in the book at how many times tournament leaders would start playing bad as soon as they knew they were in the lead. Personally, I know that many times I have struggled with sin when I thought things were going pretty well. I got self-confident and stopped focusing on the Lord. Biblical men must live with a focus on Him...one day at a time.

4. Humility--Not only did Harry Vardon and Francis Ouimet come from very humble backgrounds, but they did not seem to be overly impressed with themselves. Vardon was one of the greatest in the game and he had to know he was good, but he let his game do the talking instead of unwisely speaking about his ability. Ouimet seemed to enjoy the game and was amazed at the crowds that followed him. He surprised himself with some of his shots, but he did not seem to have an inflated ego like many of today's well-known athletes. In biblical manhood, humility is essential and it is more than just not boasting (as with Vardon and Ouimet). It has to do with your thoughts of yourself before a Holy God. When we see our absolute deadness in our sin and our need for a Savior, we see that we have nothing to boast about. Our salvation is a gift of God and we had no part in it. Very little "Christ" is seen in a "Christian" when he is pointing to his own accomplishments or achievements. The vision for biblical manhood put forth in the Bible is a humble man...a man like Christ.

Mommy's Helper

2008-06-18T13:39:00.000-04:00

I spoke in my last post about "Free Babysitting." Another area in our church culture in which we are seeking to build biblical womanhood is in having young ladies be "Mommy's Helpers." These are usually teenage girls who are seeking to serve a young mom for a few hours each week. It is a type of purposeful babysitting in the since that the "Mommy's Helper" may be helping out with the kids, but she may also be helping with the cleaning of the home. The benefits to this idea are both for the Mother as well as the teenage girl. Here are some of the benefits.

Benefits for the Mother:

1. Getting some afternoon assistance in the middle of a long week

2. Showing her daughters a model of a "godly girl" by pointing to the "Mommy's Helper" as a Christlike example of serving.

3. Running errands if she needs to without having to pack all of the kids in the car

4. Enjoying conversation with someone a little older than the children

5. Ministering to the "Mommy's Helper" by asking questions and helping her learn how to care for children

Benefits for the "Mommy's Helper"

1. Learning about what it means to serve in the home

2. Learning how hard it is to care for little children

3. Learning responsibility by coming prepared with crafts or activities for the children

4. Learning to engage a young mom with questions and conversation

5. Learning to serve without anything expected in return

6. Growing in affection for little children and gets a window into the goodness of motherhood

Our "Mommy's Helper" is like an extension of our family now. My wife loves her, my daughters love her and I am so thankful for the way she serves them. It is an example of Gospel-motivated serving that ministers to me every week.

Babysitting for Free

2008-06-11T10:45:00.000-04:00

Recently, I was talking to a pastor at another church about how he and his wife are doing in their marriage. He humbly spoke about where God's grace has been seen as well as areas where his sinful heart has contributed to conflict in the marriage. Toward the end of our conversation, he said, "we really would like to have more consistent date nights, but it is so expensive to find babysitting."

In this post I want to do a little vision casting. What would happen if we had a generation of young people, specifically teenage ladies, who desired to honor Christ by serving those in their church by babysitting. In our church, we are working on just that kind of culture. My wife and I are honored that we get at least two date nights a month (and sometimes more) where we get free child care, which allows us to spend time together and build our marriage. The effects of us having a good marriage are numerous as we pour into many college students as well as young couples in our church. You see, babysitting may not seem like a big deal, but this ministry can be huge in that it allows couples to prioritize each other the way they need too. There is a ripple effect in which this one act of service can then lead toward ministering to others. This is how the body of Christ works. We care for each other and that care intertwines with more care.

I don't want to be overly simplistic, but here is my line of thinking: having more date nights has the potential of helping marriages be stronger; Stronger marriages lead to better and more unified parenting; Stronger marriages and parenting leads to a stronger church; Stronger churches help bring the glory of the gospel into view to our lost communities. Now, I'm not saying their is a direct correlation between free babysitting and gospel witness, but I do think if our marriages are gospel-centered, they have a greater influence on our churches and our communities than we often think.

My wife and I are now rearing our two daughters to learn the value of biblical womanhood and we desire them to provide childcare for future young couples. I look forward to the day that our girls babysit the children of our current babysitters...for free.

Family Worship

2008-06-04T16:50:00.001-04:00

My friend Fred and I were talking the other day and he spoke of the way he wanted to be a better father and the way he desired a passion for biblical parenting to spread throughout his church. He said, "You know, in seminary, when they talked about 'family ministry' I didn't have kids yet, so it didn't mean much to me." Now Fred has two young children and a third on the way. It is amazing how God uses our life circumstances to give us the same passions that he has. Fred is a humble guy, who desires to lead his family in loving the Lord. One of the ways he is seeking to do this is through "family worship" times.

Family Worship is the idea of a dad leading his family in daily or weekly concentrated focus on the Lord. It often includes singing, prayer, and Scripture reading. I had never heard of it until a few years ago, but it is a concept that has been rolling for years. I've enjoyed seeing the grace that God has poured out on my own family through doing this and I know He desires to pour that same grace on other families. Here are some great quotes to tell you more about family worship and the role of parents in leading their children spiritually. They stir my spirit to make me want to be a better dad.

-John Newton (1725-1807)
“I think, with you, that it is very expedient and proper that reading a portion of the word of God should be ordinarily a part of our family worship; so likewise to sing a hymn or psalm, or part of one, at discretion; provided there are some people in the family who have enough of a musical ear and voice to conduct the singing in a tolerable manner: otherwise, perhaps, it may be better omitted… If you read and sing, as well as pray, care should be taken that the combined services do not run into an inconvenient length.”

-Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758)
“Every Christian family ought to be as it were a little church, consecrated to Christ, and wholly influenced and governed by his rules. And family education and order are some of the chief means of grace. If these fail, all other means are likely to prove ineffectual. If these are duly maintained, all the means of grace will be likely to prosper and be successful.”

-Richard Baxter (1615-1691)
“We must have a special eye upon families, to see that they are well ordered. The welfare and glory of both the Church and the State, depend much on family government and duty. If we suffer the neglect of this, we shall undo all. Therefore, if you desire reformation, do all you can to promote family religion.”

-Matthew Henry (1662-1714)
“Masters of families, who preside in the other affairs of the house, must go before their households in the things of God. They must be as prophets, priests, and kings in their own families; and as such they must keep up family-doctrine, family-worship, and family-discipline: then is there a church in the house, and this is the family religion I am persuading you to… You must read the scriptures to your families, in a solemn manner, requiring their attendance on your reading, and their attention to it: and inquiring sometimes whether they understand what you read.”

-John Knox (1510-1572)
“Brethren, you are ordained of God to rule your own houses in his true fear, and according to his word. Within your houses, I say, in some cases, you are bishops and kings; your wife, children, servants, and family are your bishopric and charge… Of you it shall be required how carefully and diligently you have instructed them in God’s true knowledge, how you have studied to plant virtue in them, and [to] repress vice. And therefore I say, you must make them partakers in reading, exhorting, and in making common prayers, which I would in every house were used once a day at least.”

-Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892)
“First, let us begin by emphatically declaring it is parents (fathers in particular) and not the church who are given the primary responsibility for calling the next generation to hope in God. The church serves a supplementary role, reinforcing the biblical nurture that is occurring in the home…

[HT: Steve Wright]

reThink Conference

2008-05-27T16:43:00.003-04:00

How do the family and the church work together to rear children for God's glory? Who has the main responsibility? Well, the reThink Conference provided some good ground level instruction and theological insight about how to have your church prioritize the family more and how to encourage your parents to take the responsibility for the spiritual lives of their children. Steve Wright and the gang at Providence Baptist Church in Raleigh, NC did a great job pastoring pastors. You can read Alex Chediak's posts about the conference to see what you missed.

Vacation Time

2008-05-27T14:20:00.007-04:00

Everyone has their idea of a perfect vacation. For my family, it is going to the beach and just spending time enjoying each other, playing in the sand, and talking. Last week, we went to Harbor Island, SC. I want to pass on this location to you because we found it helpful for a family of young children. Not all beaches are family friendly. I remember going to "biker week" (unintentionally) At another SC beach about 3 years ago and let's just say that the word "friendly" and "family" do not even pop in my mind about that week. Although, I did get a cool "Bike Week" t-shirt!

Harbor Island, SC is family-friendly for several reasons.

1. Secluded: While we were there, we basically had the beach to ourselves. Harbor Island is a private island, so a gate pass comes with your stay. There were 3 other families on the beach one day, but that was the most we saw. We did not have to worry about our little girls wandering off or being taken by a stranger.

2. Purity: When there are not many people on the beach, there are not many immodest bathing suits. I found this quite refreshing. It was a new concept to be at the beach, but not be so concerned about where I turned my head. It was really nice.

3. Small Waves: The waves are not bad. In fact, there are not big waves at all. Now if I had older children, I don't think I would like this, but with younger kids, it was really helpful to know your kid was not going to get pulled under.

4. Pool and Playground: They had a sweet pool and playground area for everyone on the island. This was a great way to spend our post-nap afternoons because we were at the beach all morning.

5. Wildlife: Well, you might not like that, but the Seaver family did. We were playing with crabs on the beach and the marshes have crocodiles that you can watch (no, they are not very close, but you can still see them). They also had a lot of exotic birds.

6. The Golf Cart: The condo we stayed in had a golf cart that we were allowed to use. Our girls enjoyed testing out their driving skills as we did a scavenger hunt with them on the island.

7. Price: The price was really not that bad for a 7 day beach vacation. Pretty reasonable.

8. Beach: At low tide, there are about 250 yards of beach. At high tide, there is still beach, but you can also walk out into the ocean for a long time before it ever gets up to your waist. This was fun for the kids.

If you are planning out this year's vacation, I think you may be too late, but you can book for next summer.

Speaking of vacations, CJ Mahaney has some good tips for dads about leading your family on your vacation.

Women as Sages

2008-05-10T12:53:00.007-04:00

At Together for the Gospel, John Piper encouraged women to go hard after the Lord as "sages." Jeff Robinson of CBMW posted, "Piper made clear his feelings regarding the place of godly women in the church, calling churches to cultivate female sages who take seriously both the close careful study of God's Word, while serving as wise, theologically-informed mentors for younger Christian women. In one of the most unforgettable lines of the conference, Piper expressed his deep love for women who live and labor fearlessly for an invisible kingdom and the glory of God. Piper answered his own question about where these women can be found:

"Where are these women? The single women and the married women and the pastor's wives like Esther, who, when Mordecai came to her and said, ‘you have to do this because your people are perishing,' [she said], ‘Tell them to fast and I will go into the king though it is against the law, and if I perish, then I perish.' Where are those women? Our church is crawling with them. I love them....I married one of them." "

Piper's comments resonated with the pastors at our church and our desire have older women mentor the younger. Recently, we have been working on a mentoring curriculum to assist these ladies to take college females under their wing and care for them. As many of us have discussed this curriculum, one of our pastors had an insightful paragraph in an e-mail.

"One thing that might fit under 'womanhood' or 'disciplines' or as a theme of the curriculum altogether would be the vein of thinking that Piper spoke about at T4G. I would love our young ladies to have a picture of womanhood that is strong, intelligent, theologically deep, and culturally engaged. I want them to have a picture of themselves as being the nurturers of the next generation of Christians in the world. Yes, their husbands will lead them in this, but they will be the ones on the ground day in and day out that will be teaching, instructing, encouraging, and correcting our children, and challenging and sharpening us as their husbands! Womanhood includes care for the home, but it is far more than this. Care for the home is the minimum, not the end of womanhood. One area I think feminism has gotten it right has been their push for women to realize their standing as equal to men in value and intelligence. At times I believe our ladies (young and old) believe hard thinking about theology, tough books, and cultural engagement are to be left up to the men; “there domain is the home,” as if this doesn’t require a deep grasp of theology. (They do more pastoring, counseling, evangelism, and discipline than anyone else in the church, and cook our dinners to boot) If they are truly equal in value and dignity before God and not intellectually inferior, which we all wholeheartedly believe, then there is no reason for them not to be as diligent in their pursuit of experiential knowledge of God in every discipline available to them. The only difference is the primary sphere in which they will regularly be applying this knowledge, the home."

I thought this paragraph expressed a pastoral heart toward caring for women and having them achieve their God designed role: Intelligent, Humble, Submissive Womanhood.

Breakfast with Dad

2008-05-05T16:41:00.000-04:00

A couple of years ago, my wife and I were trying to figure out how to teach our oldest daughter about God. We knew that the home was the primary place for our girls to learn about God and the Bible (see Deut. 6), but we wanted to have a routine on how to teach them. My wife saw that some of the families represented on the GirlTalk blog did "breakfast with dad" in the mornings. This idea consists of dad fixing breakfast and spending time with the kids while mom can get ready for the day. It allows dad to do some "spiritual care" for his children and gives some consistency on the amount of God-talk that begins the day.

In our home we have been using My First Book of Questions and Answers for a few years now and it is amazing how much my oldest daughter has retained through the simple question and answer process. I can ask my 4 year old daughter, "What is sin?" and she will say, "Disobeying or not keeping God's law in any way?" If we expect to teach our children how to count and do their ABCs, we can teach also expect them to have the mental capacity to learn simple doctrines.

We resently added My First Book of Bible Prayers to also teach my daughters more about prayer. Both of these rescources are simple tools to help parents lead their children. If you are not specifically and consistently training your children in the ways of God, I encourage you to take the small step of talking about these ideas with your spouse. Jesus said, "Let the little children come unto me." This is a way we can take them to him.

3 Questions That Could Change Your Marriage

2008-04-29T15:52:00.001-04:00

Have you ever been sitting in Small Group and a question is asked and you know that if your spouse answers the question, you're sin is going to be exposed? This is a twisted feeling because you know that you want to be rid of sin and that it will help your marriage, but you also fear man more than God and don't want your sin spread out before your entire group in order to have them examine your marriage. Today, I am giving you the opportunity to take a step in helping your marriage before you get to your small group.

We all have blind spots in our marriage and our spouse can often help us with these...if we just ask. Many times, I am too prideful to ask. I encourage you to ask your spouse the following questions and sit to listen to the answer without interrupting or arguing in your mind. Take an extended time at a local coffee shop with your "honey" and listen and learn. What is said may surprise you. I promise that God wants to meet you in your very asking. Why do I know this? God promises to show grace to the humble and when you are seeking to draw out your spouse you are taking a step of humility.

1. Honey, do you feel that I am more aware of areas that you need to change or where God is at work in your life?

2. What is one area you would like to see me grow?

3. Sweetie, I think the biggest struggle in our marriage is ______________. What do you think about that?

Complementarian Spouses and Egalitarian Extended Family

2008-04-23T10:30:00.002-04:00

Chip and Celia have been married for 5 years. They love and respect Chip's parents, but Chip's parents feel that the couple needs to spend more time with them, take their input more seriously about parenting, and allow Celia to work outside the home ("...since she does have her Master's Degree").

In a society where we breath the air of feminism, many young couples face the struggle of building a complementarian marriage while having parents who see through egalitarian lenses. Here are a few tips on how to honor egalitarian parents while also not compromising your biblical convictions.

1. Humility: We are always told to "honor our parents," so the best way to honor parents when you disagree with them is by humbly hearing them (without interrupting) and humbly responding. It is okay to disagree, but if there is a lack of humility in your heart during hard conversations, it is probably going to stir more strife than peace. James 4:8 says, "God is opposed to the proud, but give grace to the humble." God will give pour out his amazing grace as you seek to be humble and honor him.

2. Remember the Gospel: Alfred Poirier encourages us to see criticism with our eyes on the cross. He says, "In light of God’s judgment and justification of the sinner in the cross of Christ, we can begin to discover how to deal with any and all criticism. By agreeing with God’s criticism of me in Christ’s cross, I can face any criticism man may lay against me. In other words, no one can criticize me more than this cross has. And the most devastating criticism turns out to be the finest mercy. If you thus know yourself as having been crucified with Christ, then you can respond to any criticism, even mistaken or hostile criticism, without bitterness, defensiveness, or blame shifting. Such responses typically exacerbate and intensify conflict, and lead to the rupture of relationships. You can learn to hear criticism as constructive and not condemnatory because God has justified you."

3. Did you always hold this position?: For many of us, we did not always hold the complementarian position that we now embrace. Give your extended family an opportunity and grace to learn. Allow them to see the way you function as a family and not seek to teach them "why you are right." I have heard C.J. Mahaney say, "Time and truth are on our side" and I think this quote can apply here.

4. Get the log out of your own eye: Are you more aware of your sin or the sin of your extended family? Jesus says that you need to get the phone pole out of your own eye before you get the tooth pick out of theirs.

5. This is not your worst problem: Your worst problem is your sin and the wrath of the Father that you deserve and the eternal hell that should come to you. Through the cross of Christ, your worst problem is fully and finally handled because Christ was a substitute for the punishment you deserved. An offense by your extended family is not nearly as significant as your offense against God. Your worst problem is solved.

6. Husbands, lead graciously: A heavy handed husband is not going to win over anyone. A husband who is loving his wife as Christ loves the church is going to be respected. Your extended family is watching you and your marriage can be a picture of the gospel or a distortion of the gospel. Husbands, it starts with us.

7. Wives, submit intelligently: A feminist society cannot comprehend a loving wife who is positioned toward her husband and home. When wives joyfully serve and show that complementarianism is not "doormat-ism" the watching world marvels. Wives, use the gifts God has given you for his glory and the good of your family. Your extended family may never understand, but your Savior will say, "well done."

The Divorce News

2008-04-18T13:14:00.005-04:00

After getting back from the Together for the Gospel conference I am freshly grateful for the men who speak and lead the conference. Al Mohler is one of those men. Here are the links to two different posts from his blog on recent divorce studies.

"The Divorce Industrial Complex"

"Newsweek Discovers the Divorce Generation"

A Humble Response by Shawnda Kovacs

2008-04-09T23:33:00.009-04:00

Shawnda Kovacs is a godly wife and mom of 3 children. Two of the children are adopted and both Shawnda and her husband have a huge passion for adoption. My wife often read's Shawnda's blog and let me know recently of a true response in humility that Shawnda showed an anonymous blogger. I was encouraged to see Shawnda's biblical exhortation, biblical femininity, and truly gracious spirit. Here is what she said: (I am trying to work on problems with the formatting of this post...thanks for your patience)

Unfortunately, there's no accountability for this comment (shared below) that I got yesterday.

So, I'm just going to blog about it. I put a plea above my comment box for comments to be respectful and edifying. That didn't work. So, made the bittersweet decision to take out the option for anonymous comments. This is bitter because I LOVE having conversations with people that don't think/believe/live like I do. It's sweet because I haven't had to be the recipient of unaccountable disrespect...until yesterday. I'm not sure if this commenter made up a false account or how they managed an account with no profile (probably just shows my lack of blogging knowledge). But there's no way to respond to them, sadly. So, instead of responding to them privately, I'm responding to them publicly - because their comment is worthy of a response.

So, here's the comment:

Two things - I can't believe people are still reading this book. Second, I can't believe you spend the time blogging about this nonsense. You are giving chrisitan women a really bad name and perception. What a disgrace! Why don't you stop "following" your husband's every word (or Martha Peace for that matter) and start thinking on your own - what God intended. Please Please throw this book away! It is crap!!!!!!!!!!!!! and it makes you sound so pathetic!
Doesn't this comment bring up a lot of great conversation pieces?! I would love to sit with [you] this commenter and chat for an hour or so! We clearly have different convictions and understandings of God's Word, but surely we could learn from one another....if we are willing to listen....and not just be heard.

So, this is where I'd start, if, of course, there was a way to contact the commenter,

Hi, "Elizabeth",
Thanks for commenting on my blog and thanks for your honesty! From your comment, I gather you would say you don't agree with the values in The Excellent Wife. Have you ever read it? I'm not trying to be sarcastic - it's a serious question. I'm led to ask that question because your encouragement is to "stop following your husbands every word and start thinking on your own - what God intended". This is an obvious misunderstanding of the objective of the book, and could only be so misunderstood by not reading it at all.

Would you allow me to clarify, to the best of my limited ability?

I can only share from what I've read from Martha Peace that she is committed to Jesus first and foremost (her husband comes only after the Lord). Her hearts desire for herself and for other Christian women is to see them glorify our Lord by living the life He has called us to. Fortunately, we know what He has called us to because He tells us in His Word,

18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him...21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22 And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said,
“This at last is bone of my bonesand flesh of my flesh;she shall be called Woman,because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Genesis 2:18 and 21-24

Here the Lord clearly gives us our role - "helper"

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. [1] 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. Ephesians 5:22-33

And here the Lord calls us to submit to our husbands, as to the Lord. (and I'd like to note, if you keep reading, Christian husbands have a VERY demanding role as they lead their wives.) Unfortunately, the word "submit" makes many women cringe or even rebel. However, the word submission has lost its beauty and meaning. Submission is a role - it's active, not passive. I am actively involved in our home. I actively communicate with my husband. I actively share my opinions. I actively ask for his opinions. I actively share my heart when I feel he has sinned against me. I actively seek his forgiveness when I sin against him (by God's grace!). I actively give input into our daily lives and decisions we are making. I actively seek the Lord for my husband as he leads our family. These are not examples of me "following his every word". These are (very limited) examples of me being a helper to my husband - actively helping him and submitting to him. I am called to ACTIVELY submit to my husband as he leads our family. As otherwise misunderstood, this is in no way passive. Submission calls for self-control, humility, grace, and most of all, FAITH in my Lord that HE is ultimately leading my husband and our family. These are the challenges that Martha Peace is guiding and encouraging Christian wives through - she knows the character qualities we are called to as Christians are HARD and sometimes feel impossible to live out. BUT, it's what the Lord Jesus hashas called us to do, and if I could use your own words "what God intended" for Christian wives to do. Martha Peace wrote a book on "what God intended" for Christian wives using His very Words to us.

So, YES, women are still reading this book because there is a longing in our hearts - not to "follow our husbands every word", BUT to follow our God's every Word that He might be glorified through the grace that He gives us, and that we might follow our God's every Word for our joy, for our husband's joy, for our children's joy, and for the joy of generations to come.

4 An excellent wife is the crown of her husband,but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones.
Proverbs 12:4

10 [4] An excellent wife who can find?She is far more precious than jewels.11 The heart of her husband trusts in her,and he will have no lack of gain.12 She does him good, and not harm,all the days of her life.13 She seeks wool and flax,and works with willing hands.14 She is like the ships of the merchant;she brings her food from afar.15 She rises while it is yet nightand provides food for her householdand portions for her maidens.16 She considers a field and buys it;with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.17 She dresses herself [5] with strengthand makes her arms strong.18 She perceives that her merchandise is profitable.Her lamp does not go out at night.19 She puts her hands to the distaff,and her hands hold the spindle.20 She opens her hand to the poorand reaches out her hands to the needy.21 She is not afraid of snow for her household,for all her household are clothed in scarlet. [6]22 She makes bed coverings for herself;her clothing is fine linen and purple.23 Her husband is known in the gateswhen he sits among the elders of the land.24 She makes linen garments and sells them;she delivers sashes to the merchant.25 Strength and dignity are her clothing,and she laughs at the time to come.26 She opens her mouth with wisdom,and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.27 She looks well to the ways of her householdand does not eat the bread of idleness.28 Her children rise up and call her blessed;her husband also, and he praises her:29 “Many women have done excellently,but you surpass them all.”30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain,but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.31 Give her of the fruit of her hands,and let her works praise her in the gates.
Proverbs 31:10-31

Can A Guy Get Pregnant?

2008-04-04T14:43:00.004-04:00

Can a guy have a baby? It's a question that many are asking right now because of some recent news that has been on everything from websites to Oprah. I could not improve on the way the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW) answered this question.

Pronouns and Surgery Do Not Produce a Man
by Jeff Robinson

April 2, 2008

The Oregonian newspaper last week published an unsettling news story about a man from Bend, Oregon who is apparently five months pregnant.

As it turns out, however, the man in question is no man at all.

"The parent-to-be was born female but identifies as a man, he writes in his first-person account posted this week by The Advocate, a national gay publication. He legally changed his name to Thomas Beatie and married a woman named Nancy...About 10 years ago, Beatie underwent breast-removal surgery and started male hormones, he writes, but kept the uterus and female genitals...Nancy couldn't carry the child because she had had a hysterectomy. So Beatie stopped testosterone injections, and menstrual periods returned within four months. He says he conceived through artificial insemination at home with sperm bought from a sperm bank and that he didn't take fertility drugs."

Beatie is due to give birth to a daughter around July 3. He told The Advocate, "To Nancy, I am her husband carrying our child. I will be my daughter's father, and Nancy will be her mother. We will be a family."

In the lead paragraph, Oregonian reporter Don Colburn says the case stretches "the meaning of the 21st century family and the limits of personal pronouns," and later he points out that "Family dynamics circa 2008 can get complicated."

While this story is certainly extraordinary, it cannot escape the inescapable truth: Thomas Beatie is not a man; "he," is a woman, a person who has merely sought to alter his (I use that pronoun in the universal sense denoting ‘personhood') biological identity; however, the fact that Thomas Beatie is truly a female is absolute, for God did not create men (gender-specific, non-universal sense) with wombs. Women who take testosterone injections will grow beards. Nevertheless, the irony here is that, in spite of a "gender reassignment" procedure, the female body of "Thomas Beatie" is functioning precisely according to God's design.

Despite his sinful machinations, man cannot finally and fully altar the transcendent and biological realities that define a family; according to God's all-wise design, only a man and woman together can procreate and all the pronominal gymnastics in the world cannot get around it. Sadly, Thomas Beatie's daughter will be raised by two mothers, and never know her actual father, an anonymous donor.

Gaining Perspective For Self-Assessment

2008-04-01T11:48:00.006-04:00

It is always good to step back from our daily routine and do some self-assessment every once in a while. If you are planning a spiritual retreat anytime soon or just wanting some food for thought in your devotion time, you may want to ask these questions to your spouse, care group leader, pastor, friend, or older child to get some perspective before you go and sit down. I think the answers they give you will reveal areas that God wants to help you, mold you, and change you. They are taken from Kenneth Maresco's message Accountable Pastors, Accountable Churches, but you don't have to be in vocational ministry to benefit from this teaching.

a. Do you think I humbly pursue your input? Would you characterize me as one who pursues others for their input/questions/observations?

b. Am I easy to bring observations to? Do you feel I have taken your concerns seriously?

c. Am I consistently confessing sin that you would be unaware of?

d. What steps can I take to cultivate change in this area?

Accountable Pastors, Accountable Churches

2008-03-27T10:36:00.005-04:00

There are few messages that have affected my marriage, parenting, and pastoral life more than this message (and outline). Kenneth Maresco explains how the gospel changes the way we relate to one another and I think putting this message into practice greatly impact the church today. I have recently been going through this message again (for the 7th or 8th time) because I am teaching on this subject soon and I thought I would pass on some tidbits his teaching to you. When speaking of how we should give and receive input from others, Maresco gives some helpful responses that most of us may find familiar.

Why do we not pursue fellowship and confess sins?
1. I don’t need help on this one; I know what to do.
2. Do I really need help? After all I am a _____ (godly husband and father, CGL, pastor, etc).
3. I’ll confess it when I’ve repented completely.
4. I’ve got the Bible, I’ve got the Holy Spirit, I ought to be able to handle this myself.
5. It was not a “big” sin, so it’s not that big a deal.
6. It’s not a besetting sin, just occasional. I can just use the materials everyone recommended.
7. They’re just going to tell me what I already know.
8. I can change on my own. I don’t really need the help of others.
9. This is something I’m working on.
10. I’m making progress so I don’t need to share this.
11. I can just apply the counsel I’ve already received.
12. It’s not a strength, but it’s probably not really a sin either.
13. I see the heart issues clearly already.
14. They know this is a problem, so I don’t need to confess it again.
15. I’ve already repented and made changes.
16. I’ve confessed it to God and my wife.
17. I’ve already confessed it to people who know me better.
18. Other problems in the group are bigger than this.
19. They don’t really understand my struggle.
20. I’ve got so much work to do. I need to be a good steward of my time and responsibilities.
21. This is more serious than these folks can handle.
22. I don’t know if I can trust them with this information.
23. They will lose all respect for me if I share this.
24. They are busy, too busy to hear my confession right now.
25. I don’t know that I’ll ever really change in this area.
26. I don’t think folks in my group are strong in this either.
27. They won’t respond well if I confess again.
28. What would happen if they really knew about this in my life?
29. I want a reputation of having my life under control and people to think I can handle all of life's challenges and discern my own sins.
30. I don't want to look bad, I don't want to look bad, I don't want to look bad.

Why do we not share questions/concerns with other?
1. It’s not a pattern, so I should overlook it.
2. It was very minor; it’s not that big a deal. It’s not that important.
3. I’m not in relationship with that person.
4. Can I raise a question with the man who trained me?
5. I can overlook this, but I won’t forget it.
6. I don’t have time for this.
7. I wasn’t really offended or affected by what they did.
8. Someone else/ someone closer will share if it’s a pattern
9. They probably didn’t intend to offend.
10. It wasn’t really sin.
11. No one else seemed concerned.
12. They will think I’m self-righteous.
13. They know I struggle with the same thing.
14. I’ve not gone through what they’re going through.

Thinking on reThink

2008-03-20T15:21:00.005-04:00

I've been reading reThink the last few days and rethinking the youth ministry that I used to do. Wow, I messed up a lot! Here is an excerpt from the book that I thought was insightful in showing that the modern day youth ministry is not working and in fact the addition of parents to a student ministry is wholly biblical. Steve Wright says,

"God started the first family and ordained it as the institution for not only reproduction but also primary discipleship. Think of Deuteronomy 6:4-9,

'Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.'

The importance of this passage, called the Shema is magnified when we consider the practice of Orthodox Jews who recite it twice a day, morning and evening. Of all the great Old Testament passages concerning creation, faith, God's provisions, the coming Messiah, commandments, repentance and forgiveness, I am amazed that it was this passage that God impressed on them to repeat daily. We also know that in case we missed the importance the first time, the Lord repeated these same instructions to parents in Deuteronomy 11. All this repetition is more than coincidence; it makes it clear that the Shema is one of the most important passages in the Old Testament, as it instructs parents with their God-given assignment to disciple their children. If it is a foundational principle in the Bible, then it should also be one of the most important foundations of our student ministries. God places the primary responsibility on parents, and how we do ministry must reflect that fact" (page 76-77).

reThink Conference

2008-03-13T11:49:00.003-04:00

My friend, Steve Wright, seems to be on to something when he is saying that the modern approach to youth ministry is not working. "What is it missing?" you may ask. Dad and Mom. If you can make the reThink Conference , I don't think you will be disappointed. It is free and I think we all can benefit and learn from these men who have been in ministry for years. Randy Stinson of CBMW is joining Steve Wright for this conference because the implication to changing youth ministry are not just on church, but on the biblical view of the family.

If you can't make the conference, I encourage you to order reThink the book and see what the buzz is about. This book is being used at Southern, Southeastern, and Southwestern seminaries.

Here is another great resource that can be helpful if you are rethinking youth ministry in your church

Battling Sexual Sin

2008-03-12T11:59:00.007-04:00

Sex. It is a word that brings an explosion of thoughts to mind once it is read or heard. I remember in Middle School, kids would wear shirts by a brand of surf board wax called "Sex Wax" just because it had the "s" word on it. Now, I lived in Southwest Virginia at the time and the only need for wax was to help the kid's braces not get caught on their cheeks. The fascination with sex and the battle against improper views of sex was at high tide then and it seems like it is now causing flood-like casualties.

On Sunday, my senior pastor, Mickey Connolly, gave an relevant and helpful message from 2 Samuel 11 and 12 speaking of what it looks like to fall into sexual sin and how to battle against this devastating temptation. He gave 16 lessons that can be learned from David and Bathsheba. I am posting them because I found them helpful in reevaluating my own fight against sexual temptation. I hope they help you too.

1. Temptation can come when I least expect it. I must always be on my guard.

2. Sin often happens when I am not positively engaged in godly activities. (when I'm not doing what I am supposed to be doing)

3. I usually have a chance to stop myself if I would only take it. (1 Cor. 10:12)

4. Sin has a way of finding me out...it will be brought to the light.

5. Trying to cover up my sin only makes things worse.

6. One sin often leads to another.

7. Sin tends to harden my heart.

8. Even if no one else is aware, God is aware.

9. It is easier to be outraged at someone else's sin than my own.

10. To sin is to look for good outside of God's perfect provision.

11. Sin never satisfies.

12. Sin always has consequences.

13. Heartfelt repentance is the only appropriate response to sin.

14. While my sin has many manifestations it has only one root--a heart that craves something more than God.

15. Because of the cross, God does not treat me as my sins deserve.

16. While sin affects my life, it need not ruin my life.

Family Nights

2008-02-27T16:07:00.006-05:00

Manhood and Creativity...does it go together? I think it can, but I know a lot of guys who struggle with this. We are trying to be creative and romantic on date nights and then we want to be fun and spontaneous on family nights. Our goal must be to love our families and point them to Christ, but I know we can lose sight of that goal when creativity seems distant. So here is a little "cheat sheet" for all of the guys out there for creative "family nights." This is a work in progress, but I thought it would be helpful. Please feel free to add to this list. I live in Charlotte, NC...so it may look a little different for you, but I encourage you to put together your own list. I can guarantee one thing...if you don't start planning for family nights, you are never going have them.

Family Night ideas for families with younger children

· Chucky Cheese Night—eat an early dinner (we don’t like their pizza…so eat at home or somewhere else) and then purchase lots of tokens and have a blast as a family

· “Fish Store” Night—Even with having two daughters, our girls love to go to Bass Pro Shop and then look at the fish. Then we go to Rocky Mtn. Chocolate Factory and share a caramel apple .

· Big Shows—always be on the look out for the circus, shows, or plays coming to town. You can sign up for Ticketmaster to e-mail you weekly for updates about what is coming to the Charlotte area

· Role Play Night—this started off as training our girls in discipline situations, but they loved it. Now we will play through scenarios where Mommy acts like our oldest daughter and Daddy will act like our baby. The girls love to “play” mommy and daddy

· Cinderella Night—for girls, it has been fun to have popcorn and rent Cinderella. I did a “Cinderella scavenger hunt” around our house by writing a story that was similar to Cinderella on note cards. The prize was the DVD of Cinderella

· Movie Night

· Hide and Seek Night—use the whole house and play “hide and seek”

· NASCAR speed park—go cart racing

· Carowinds--any theme park for a "family day"

· Candy Night—purchase a lot of different kinds of candy and then play Candy Land

· Pajama Run—go to Dunkin Doughnuts spontaneously either late at night or early in the morning

Family Night Ideas for families with older children

· Music Night: Find two songs on the Internet for everyone to play

· Cooking night: Cook up something really outlandish and bizarre
o Beet Soup
o Fondue Night
o Banana Splits

· Movie Review Night: Instead of watching a movie all the way through, watch several movie trailers. Movies that we would not normally watch. Review each for future viewing purposes.

· Family website night and/or BLOG

· Shopping for $10 Night: see how many creative things you can buy at the mall for $10. Divide up in pairs and have a great time. Meet at a designated spot in one hour to share your purchases.

· Game Night: Purchase a new “exotic” or “classic” game and play it together with popcorn or a new dessert that we all made together.
o Scattergories
o Scrabble

· Cappuccino Night: Create new cafe beverages together. Find recipes online and have a holly jolly good time.

· Bowling

· You Tube
o Promo for the Coffee House
o Shark Attacks
o Ninja Video
o Flight of the Concords
o Scary Clips

· Putt Putt

· Digital Camera Scavenger Hunt

· Coffee at Local Coffee Shop

· Local College…basketball game, Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream, Coffee Shop

· Special Theatre

· Drive Inn Movie Theatre

(thanks to Lloyd Odell for many ideas and suggestions I used!)

Man School

2008-02-22T12:04:00.001-05:00

I know when you are looking for a way to disciple young men, you often try to look for a book to go through and you want to hit on both doctrine and practice. I don't have one specific book to recommend to you, but below is the curriculum that we are using to teach and train our college students to be men of God. Men that are ready to be husbands, fathers, and godly leaders in our church. My friend, Nick Swan, put this together.

Man School Discipleship Curriculum

1. Introductory Meeting – Purpose, Testimonies, Expectations, Prayer

2. Gospel – Bridge’s Discipline of Grace (3), Grudem Christian Beliefs (9-10), Be able to articulate the gospel in 60 seconds or less. How Good are You? tract, Two Ways to Live tract.

3. Sin/Sanctification – Grudem’s Christian Beliefs (8, 15), Mahaney's Living the Cross-Centered Life (11-12), Bridges' Gospel for Real Life (15)

4. Humility - Mahaney's Humility (1-7)

5. Devotional Life/Study/Resident Theologian – Hughes - Disciplines of a Godly Man (6-8), Whitney - Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life (1)

6. Local Church/Serving/ Giving – Harris' Stop Dating the Church (1, 3-5)

7. Biblical Fellowship – Mahaney's Why Small Groups (1), and Humility (8-10)

8. Manhood – Piper's What’s the Difference? (Complete)

9. Leadership – Mohler's From Boy to Man (complete), Crotts' Mighty Men (1-3)

10. Purity – Harris' Sex Isn’t the Problem, Lust Is (4, 7)

11. Courtship – - Harris' Boy Meets Girl (3), Lechner's Courtship Questions

12. Work – Hughes' Disciplines of a Godly Man (12)